[SJD_Toronto]

However councillors in this term and the previouos term dissagree. Sheppard East and Finch West are both higher priorities.

Higher priorities because Sheppard East and Finch West are already funded, and while that's fine for this term, once the funding tools are set in place and money starts flowing in, the DRL and then, I hope, the Bloor-Danforth extension, are getting 100% top interest and push.

 

[andrewpmk]

Also if you electrify and double track Stouffville, and then build Sheppard East subway to Centennial College (one stop east of STC) you could just close the SRT and save a few billion dollars. A subway under McCowan is hard to justify, as bus route 16 is way down the list of busiest bus routes in Toronto, and far less busy than the 85/190.

 

[innsertnamehere]

its also much, much cheaper than a whole Sheppard subway. Plus it won't load the Yonge line, and will be a shorter travel time to downtown. I would expect travel times to STC to actually increase if you do that, not decrease.

 

[nfitz]

Also if you electrify and double track Stouffville, and then build Sheppard East subway to Centennial College (one stop east of STC) you could just close the SRT and save a few billion dollars.

That makes no sense. The people boarding at Scarborough Centre aren't going to Yonge-Sheppard. You'd significantly lengthen their commute ... they'd likely simply take a bus to Kennedy.

A subway under McCowan is hard to justify, as bus route 16 is way down the list of busiest bus routes in Toronto, and far less busy than the 85/190.

On McCowan between Scarborough Centre and Sheppard? There's many bus routes along here. 129, 130, 131, 169, 199.

The big loser would be Malvern and Centennial, which isn't going to get rapid transit under this scheme. Though I suppose if Malvern got a spur off the Sheppard East line, it could be almost as effective.

 

[innsertnamehere]

maybe run a line off of Sheppard down progress to STC as well to serve centennial.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Honestly, I think a Bloor-Danforth extension up to Sheppard Ave would be best at the end of the day. The LRT plan is a fine plan for Scarborough residents, but I do believe residents and others who use the Toronto’s public transit would agree the subway to Scarborough Centre is best.

However, the downtown relief subway line SHOULD be still being top priority for the city. Hell, it can be six months after shovels are in the ground for the DRL and then the B-D extension can start being worked on, just as long as the DRL comes first.

Don't really care if Scarborough-Danforth is under construction a few hundred days before the Downtown Relief Line. Just as long as the DRL is open before or just after the Scarborough-Danforth Subway extension. We don't want to move even more customers onto the Yonge Subway via Bloor-Yonge interchange.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Higher priorities because Sheppard East and Finch West are already funded, and while that's fine for this term, once the funding tools are set in place and money starts flowing in, the DRL and then, I hope, the Bloor-Danforth extension, are getting 100% top interest and push.

Why shouldn't the Scarborough-Danforth extension be 100% pushed today. If approved today, the line will already be 100% funded. We just need to ensure that the line is opened after or at the same time as the DRL. I suggest that City council approve the line, start the bulk construction ASAP and make the completion of the project be contingent on the opening of the DRL. This also has the benefit of making it difficult for the Conservatives to cancel the DRL if they are elected since both the Yonge Extension (hopefully) as well as the Scarborough-Danfoth extension will be contingent on the completion of DRL.

 

[New_EastYork]

Why shouldn't the Scarborough-Danforth extension be 100% pushed today.

- The location proposed for a Scarborough Centre subway station is along McCowan Road, which is somewhat detached from the centre itself. It will be further from the shopping mall, the civic centre, the federal building, several high-rises, and the new library which has been approved from construction.

- Continuing with the LRT plan makes use of existing infrastructure like the stations (once modified) and the elevated guideway. The subway plan does not.

- The LRT plan is fully-funded and construction is able to commence as soon as Metrolinx allows it. They state after the 2015 pan-am games, but I think it should begin much sooner

- The LRT plan will bring rapid transit to South Malvern (Sheppard/Markham) in the first phase of construction, and to Central Malvern in the second phase.

- The staff report released earlier this year studying the appropriateness of subway along Sheppard and SRT found that Sheppard cannot support the ridership levels required to justify subway while the SRT corridor barely passed the levels to justify it

- A more logical extension of the Bloor-Danforth line is east along Eglinton Avenue East between Kennedy Station and Markham Road. Plenty of ridership there.

 

[Dan416]

I hope this Scarborough subway from the Danforth line happens. It only makes sense. They can run the SRT into the ground if necessary.

 

[BurlOak]

- The location proposed for a Scarborough Centre subway station is along McCowan Road, which is somewhat detached from the centre itself. It will be further from the shopping mall, the civic centre, the federal building, several high-rises, and the new library which has been approved from construction.

I think any talk of a B-D extension would have to include an SRT from midland to Centenial. This means the Ellesmere tunnel would be abandoned along with Ellesmere, Lawrence East and Kennedy stations. To reduce conversion costs, the technology would probably be Mark II or III.

 

[rbt]

I think any talk of a B-D extension would have to include an SRT from midland to Centenial. This means the Ellesmere tunnel would be abandoned along with Ellesmere, Lawrence East and Kennedy stations. To reduce conversion costs, the technology would probably be Mark II or III.

It's on you to explain how that would reduce the costs. The entire problem is that Mark II/III vehicles have different dimentions than Mark I, otherwise they would have been ordered a very long time ago.

Yes, I am familiar with the original Soberman report, in particular the "over" and "under" wording used for the options, both in time and price, which turned out to be technically correct but the number associated with it was misleading; over is well over.


Worth noting is that Soberman was largely responsible for giving us the SRT in the first place and when you read his report (2006?) it's worth remember that.

 

[adeel]

Honestly, I think a Bloor-Danforth extension up to Sheppard Ave would be best at the end of the day. The LRT plan is a fine plan for Scarborough residents, but I do believe residents and others who use the Toronto’s public transit would agree the subway to Scarborough Centre is best.

I concur. Relatively speaking the costs of getting subway instead of LRT was something like 600M I recall reading on here somewhere...well worth it...some times you have to give what the people want...small price to pay....plus, BD extention has the ridership to support building it, so I don't see what the problem is...

 

[gweed123]

I think any talk of a B-D extension would have to include an SRT from midland to Centenial. This means the Ellesmere tunnel would be abandoned along with Ellesmere, Lawrence East and Kennedy stations. To reduce conversion costs, the technology would probably be Mark II or III.

I'd just assume run the Durham BRT into STC instead of UTSC. Extend the dedicated bus lanes along Ellesmere into STC. That way Centennial and UTSC can be served from the west by TTC BRT buses, and from the east by DRT BRT buses. Much more efficient that building either a stub LRT line from STC or a spur from Sheppard.

As for the whole subway vs LRT thing, let's not forget that the TTC report done on it last year concluded that it was pretty much a toss-up, with LRT getting the nod only because the plan was already approved and funded. If the TTC and Metrolinx can get a subway plan approved and funded (with the extra presumably being covered by revenue tools), then the reason why the LRT plan was preferred goes out the window.

I personally love this maneuver by Stintz. She's decided to tie a Bloor-Danforth extension (which was in Ford's election platform) to the revenue tools discussion, so Ford has to either vote for revenue tools, or vote against building a subway. Either way, Ford loses, unless he pulls of a political maneuver that's equal to the task (which as of yet he really hasn't done that with anything).

Let's not also forget that a Bloor-Danforth extension would mean that the status quo for Eglinton would be sufficient. So there's that plus as well.

 

[Rainforest]

A more logical extension of the Bloor-Danforth line is east along Eglinton Avenue East between Kennedy Station and Markham Road. Plenty of ridership there.

But that would mean the southern part of Scarborough is getting two high-speed, high-capacity lines at once: Danforth subway and Lakeshore East GO; while the rest of Scarborough is not served so well.

I'd rather see the subway continuing north-east to reach STC and Sheppard; while the Eglinton - Kingston Rd - Morningside - UTSC corridor can served by an in-median LRT line.

 

[Rainforest]

Hasn't Stintz already lost all credibility. She is the one who lead the charge to restore Transit City - now she wants it changed. She is the one who siad that Metrolinx can lead the projects with no input from Toronto - and now she wants input. She is the one who talked about the reach of Transit, but now wants to take transit away from Centennial.

It is Ford who lost all credibility: blocked Transit City but failed to come up with any coherent plan on his own.

Stintz is much more reasonable. First, she reinstated Transit City, that may be an imperfect, but at least coherent plan. Then, started looking for ways to improve it piece by piece, and with financial provisions to make it actually happen.

It will be funny if Stinzs ends up fulfilling one of Ford's election promises - building a subway line to STC - that Ford himself failed to deliver.

For the Yonge line, the biggest problem is people transfering at the busiest station - Bloor. This would just encourage more riders to take B-D instead Sheppard and Yonge - slowing the Yonge line even more.

I used to support this extension but now feel that the elevated Eglinton line continuous with SRT is a less expensive and more effective way to serve Scarborough.

The biggest problem for Yonge line is train capacity. Bloor station is a bottleneck, but just distributing the same amount of transferring riders between several stations of the same Yonge line will provide very little relief.

At the same time, intercepting riders from Danforth subway is easier (you need DRL just up to Danforth) than intercepting them from Eglinton or Sheppard.