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It seems strange that there would be the ridership to justify replacing the SRT with a subway, yet not enough ridership to justify elevating the Eglinton LRT east of Don Mills or building an eastern extension of the Sheppard subway. The route between Kennedy and Scarborough Centre has very little development on it, so the high ridership levels on the SRT are caused by the development at Scarborough Centre and feeder bus traffic to NE Scarborough. Meanwhile Sheppard East between Don Mills and STC is considerably denser (the Consumers Road office park and numerous new condominiums and older apartment buildings are along this stretch). Eglinton East between Don Mills and Kennedy is low density, but might become heavily used if the SRT and the Eglinton LRT were interlined. Furthermore I would expect that if a downtown relief line were built along Don Mills Road at least as far north as Sheppard (a high priority line in my view), demand on Eglinton East and Sheppard East would increase substantially.

The main factor that defines ridership of trunk routes is not the local density, but how many riders want to transfer and where they want to go. Currently, SRT and/or Danforth subway is the shortest path to downtown, therefore it has highest ridership projections.

DRL / Don Mills subway can change it if it goes far enough in the north; but we cannot assume that funding will be easily provided to take DRL up to Eglinton, let alone Sheppard.
 
It's on you to explain how that would reduce the costs. The entire problem is that Mark II/III vehicles have different dimentions than Mark I, otherwise they would have been ordered a very long time ago.

It would not be to reduce cost, but to provide service to STC and Centennial College (i.e. the major nodes in the area). The station at McCowan will not be able to serve STC. I am sure some will say that the station will be shifted West from McCowan, but in reality this can not be done.

I thought the major differences in dimensions were for traversing the curve at Kennedy and the tunnel at Ellesmere, both of which could be abandoned.
 
I am sure some will say that the station will be shifted West from McCowan, but in reality this can not be done.
Why couldn't it? It's mostly parking lots, vacant land, and forest around there. Why couldn't the line deviate from McCowan at Ellesmere and go up Borough Drive instead of McCowan, and shift back by the 401? Heck, you could probably get it under Town Centre Court if you tried hard, and were willing to demolish the cinema.
 
It would not be to reduce cost, but to provide service to STC and Centennial College (i.e. the major nodes in the area). The station at McCowan will not be able to serve STC. I am sure some will say that the station will be shifted West from McCowan, but in reality this can not be done.

I thought the major differences in dimensions were for traversing the curve at Kennedy and the tunnel at Ellesmere, both of which could be abandoned.

The tunnel/curve is a large cost but new skytrain track is also quite a bit more expensive than LRT on a similar elevation. While I'm not entirely certain of your plan, it sounds like a short extension (2km?) is proposed to the SRT along with a realignment.

It's actually the SRT extension (wholly new track) to Sheppard that made the LRT conversion cheaper than Mark II. A straight upgrade on the exact same alignment would make retaining the skytrain technology the cheaper option,not by a ton but enough to be noticed.

I would hazard a guess that both LRT and Mark II's would be in the same price range for your conversion + extension to Centennial College; though you may be right that avoiding the tunnel could reduce the price over todays official plan.
 
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I'd rather see the subway continuing north-east to reach STC and Sheppard; while the Eglinton - Kingston Rd - Morningside - UTSC corridor can served by an in-median LRT line.

What would be your solution to provide rapid transit to Centennial Collage and the Malvern community- if the subway option were pursued?
 
Why couldn't it? It's mostly parking lots, vacant land, and forest around there. Why couldn't the line deviate from McCowan at Ellesmere and go up Borough Drive instead of McCowan, and shift back by the 401? Heck, you could probably get it under Town Centre Court if you tried hard, and were willing to demolish the cinema.

But why do all of this when there is already an existing station that can be used by LRT?

Does anybody remember the 2006 TTC report that recommended purchasing new SRT vehicles (Mark II, same as Vancouver)? If we had followed through with that plan, ordered the vehicles, and made small modifications to the stations, we would be very close to a well functioning line at this point.
 
But why do all of this when there is already an existing station that can be used by LRT?
Because that station can't be used by the subway extension that the TTC Chair proposed on Friday. Even if you built a new one in the same location, you'd also have to do major work at Kennedy station, and the existing tracks extend under Eglinton to about the laneway that Google maps calls Town Haven Place.

Does anybody remember the 2006 TTC report that recommended purchasing new SRT vehicles (Mark II, same as Vancouver)? If we had followed through with that plan, ordered the vehicles, and made small modifications to the stations, we would be very close to a well functioning line at this point.
Yes. And if Premier McGuinty hadn't broken his Sheppard East LRT in 2013 promise, we'd have that opening soon too ...

If they do go this subway route ... I'd think we'd be looking at 2021 or later at a minimum. They wouldn't have to shut down the SRT - but it's hard to see how they'd get another 8 years of life out of it without some upgrades.
 
Because that station can't be used by the subway extension that the TTC Chair proposed on Friday. Even if you built a new one in the same location, you'd also have to do major work at Kennedy station, and the existing tracks extend under Eglinton to about the laneway that Google maps calls Town Haven Place.

I'm surprised no one in the media has really picked up on that yet. That really jumped out at me. Even a rudimentary analysis of the site (coupled with some elementary school spatial skills) would show you that you can't have the subway turn north right at Kennedy without doing a revamp of the entire station. The SRT platform is directly on top of the subway platform. You can't have a subway train make a near 90º turn inside a station.

And even if you could, why would you really want to? The SRT alignment up to Ellesmere is a path of least resistance alignment. It's not where the people are. If you were going to do a redo, wouldn't you want to have an intermediate station that is at least somewhere around where the people actually are?
 
I'm surprised no one in the media has really picked up on that yet. That really jumped out at me. Even a rudimentary analysis of the site (coupled with some elementary school spatial skills) would show you that you can't have the subway turn north right at Kennedy without doing a revamp of the entire station. The SRT platform is directly on top of the subway platform. You can't have a subway train make a near 90º turn inside a station.
Perhaps because there is no plan to? The TTC January 21, 2013 report detailing this plan, goes up McCowan.

 
Perhaps because there is no plan to? The TTC January 21, 2013 report detailing this plan, goes up McCowan.

They really should include a stop at Eglinton and McCowan in that plan.

And I really wonder if taking the line to Sheppard East is necessary. Would like to see a ridership/cost comparison with the line terminating at STC.
 
Link to the Torontoist for an article on A New Transit Deal For Scarborough?

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They really should include a stop at Eglinton and McCowan in that plan.

And I really wonder if taking the line to Sheppard East is necessary. Would like to see a ridership/cost comparison with the line terminating at STC.

Have you forgotten about our Sheppard East LRT? Not connecting it to Sheppard would be ridiculous when it's so close.
 
They really should include a stop at Eglinton and McCowan in that plan.

And I really wonder if taking the line to Sheppard East is necessary. Would like to see a ridership/cost comparison with the line terminating at STC.

Connecting to Sheppard makes sense. You overcome the barrier that is the 401. Why are people so allergic to Rapid transit spending in Scarborough?
 
Have you forgotten about our Sheppard East LRT? Not connecting it to Sheppard would be ridiculous when it's so close.

Is there a good reason to believe that would accurately reflect travel patterns, seeing that we will still have plenty of buses in Scarborough no matter which option is chosen?

Alternatively, would it be a better idea to bring a branch of Sheppard LRT down to STC, rather than taking the subway to Sheppard and McCowan.
 

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