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Hipster Duck said:
For less money, I would have wagered that we could have built a real subway by axing half the stops (who needs Bermondsey, really?), thus actually giving us a true high capacity, rapid crosstown corridor, as opposed to a medium capacity semi-milk run.
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Isn't the definition of a compromise something that pleases no one and upsets everyone? The two people I know of that actually likes the Eglinton-Crosstown idea are Rob and Doug Ford. The growing reaction to the project criticism is people saying "I don't care, just build something".
 
Mapleson said:
Isn't the definition of a compromise something that pleases no one and upsets everyone? The two people I know of that actually likes the Eglinton-Crosstown idea are Rob and Doug Ford. The growing reaction to the project criticism is people saying "I don't care, just build something".
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Hey I like the Eglinton Crosstown. Yes, I'd prefer it as a SUBWAY. But guess who's fault it is that we got what we got? Mayor Miller's. Miller tied the city up with all these LRVs due to the Bombardier contract. So we have to take the LRVs and use them somewhere. Guess what Eglinton, you're going to be a subway in all but name, using LRVs instead of subway rolling stock.

The compromise here is between an LRT and a subway, and what we get is a LRT subway, which combines HIGHER rolling stock prices with HIGHER costs for building the line completely in a tunnel.

It IS asinine. But because of the previous administration we have no choice.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Hey I like the Eglinton Crosstown. Yes, I'd prefer it as a SUBWAY. But guess who's fault it is that we got what we got? Mayor Miller's. Miller tied the city up with all these LRVs due to the Bombardier contract. So we have to take the LRVs and use them somewhere. Guess what Eglinton, you're going to be a subway in all but name, using LRVs instead of subway rolling stock.

The compromise here is between an LRT and a subway, and what we get is a LRT subway, which combines HIGHER rolling stock prices with HIGHER costs for building the line completely in a tunnel.

It IS asinine. But because of the previous administration we have no choice.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the east end beyond Kennedy is still aboveground, no? If so, it's still the mixed-grade system it was, just with Mayor Ford deciding on more tunnel than Mayor Miller. We still had the choice between the TransitCity Eglinton and the FordCity Eglinton, which is wholely Mayor Ford's decision.

I try to be a political realist and allow every administration is handicapped by the issues left by their predecessors. Rarely, if ever, are the choices from a clean slate, so I judge based not on an idealistic what-if scenario, but what choices each leader made in their specific circumstances. I expect a certain amount of waste with every new turn, but the question remains: is this the best we could do in this situation?
 
Eglinton is still LRT primarily so they can continue to use the SRT alignment. If it were subway, through-routing wouldn't be possible.

Also, the super-secret reason: it's still LRT so, if the political winds change, they can put the eastern section back on the surface. Surface LRT is also probably the only way the Eglinton line will ever see a connection to Pearson.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Hey I like the Eglinton Crosstown. Yes, I'd prefer it as a SUBWAY. But guess who's fault it is that we got what we got? Mayor Miller's.
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Agreed ... the man's a bleeding genius.

Of course, if we kept him, we'd have had a Finch LRT and a Sheppard LRT ... now we are stuck with Ford's Sheppard screw-up, which will be ready to go to tender in 2015 ... if the stars align.
 
taal said:
Can you say for sure all the service increases as of late are off the table as of next year or are you just postulating i.e. given the fee increase and the TTC's predicted reduction in ridership (which will probably not materialize) that they will ?
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If TTC has a budget to maintain what we have today at $1.5B, what do you expect TTC do if they get a budget of $1.3B for 2012?

Based on the questions I asked today, TTC will look at the core service first and then start looking at and where service can be put before funds dry up.

If TTC moves back to the zone system, where do they take place? All subway lines will be in zone 1. Depending on where you get off the subway and onto a bus, you could be in zone 1 or 2. If in zone 2, you will have to pay an extra fare. The same can happen when changing from bus to bus. Given the size of Toronto today, you could have 3-5 zones.

Can various departments be contracted out will be looked at.

It was stated by the vice chair that a fare increase is going to happen in 2012. Its a given considering everyone in the 905 is either doing it now or early next year. Watch GO to raise fares in 2012.

When it was stated by the Commision at the cutting of the service this year that the saving was going to go to improve existing service on routes that need it now in the fall, I said its not going to happen with TTC having to take a 10% cut to their budget.

How can you add something when you cannot fund it in the first place?

I hope I am wrong, but don't think so.

There are people looking under every stone to see if they can find any saving with staff been asked today to stop sole sourcing and find some bidders to make sure TTC is doing the right thing.
 
The "memo" drum produced above seems kind of prescient. Sue Ann Levy published a column today that's very critical of Stintz and calls for the removal of GM Gary Webster. Levy's views are often informed by what she's hearing from the Mayor's office.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/06/ttc-again-on-wrong-track
 
nfitz said:
Agreed ... the man's a bleeding genius.

Of course, if we kept him, we'd have had a Finch LRT and a Sheppard LRT ... now we are stuck with Ford's Sheppard screw-up, which will be ready to go to tender in 2015 ... if the stars align.
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You would have the Sheppard line under construction today and opening in 2014.

The Finch line would go into design stage around 2014 on the condition that Metrolinx would release funding for as well having the funds to start the construction for it in 2015. The line is still on Metrolinx books with a 2015 start funding for it in the 2011-2016 budget.

If you think 2015 is a start date for the white elephant, yessssss the plants and stars have to be 100% align
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Hey I like the Eglinton Crosstown. Yes, I'd prefer it as a SUBWAY. But guess who's fault it is that we got what we got? Mayor Miller's. Miller tied the city up with all these LRVs due to the Bombardier contract.
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No, Miller's plan was LRT because it was going to run at grade everywhere it was possible and underground everywhere else. For that plan LRT makes complete sense because it does save money. If one administration buys something for a specific purpose and the next administration uses that equipment for something completely different than what it was intended for you can't blame the previous administration.

Maybe the current federal government will buy some search and rescue helicopters and then the next government will try to use those helicopters to fly equipment halfway around the world. A long range cargo plane and a search and rescue helicopter are completely different things. For someone to argue that flying cargo long range in search and rescue helicopters is an acceptable compromise and blame the problem on the previous government is ridiculous.

Miller also bought Prius city administration vehicles... maybe Rob Ford can employ them as a city bus and we can blame Miller for that compromise that must be made??

Bombardier makes subway cars and in-city streetcars so I have a hard time believing that a deal was not possible to have the right equipment for the job. Move up a waterfront project... the waterfront east and west LRT would be cheap to build in comparison to other projects and would require in-city cars.

No choice due to the previous administration... that is rich. If there was no choice but to do what the previous administration started there would be no choice but to build Transit City. The reality is Ford doesn't care as long as it is underground. His lack of caring is not Millers fault.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Hey I like the Eglinton Crosstown. Yes, I'd prefer it as a SUBWAY. But guess who's fault it is that we got what we got? Mayor Miller's. Miller tied the city up with all these LRVs due to the Bombardier contract. So we have to take the LRVs and use them somewhere. Guess what Eglinton, you're going to be a subway in all but name, using LRVs instead of subway rolling stock.

The compromise here is between an LRT and a subway, and what we get is a LRT subway, which combines HIGHER rolling stock prices with HIGHER costs for building the line completely in a tunnel.

It IS asinine. But because of the previous administration we have no choice.
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Wow..

I'd really like to know what is so wrong about buying vehicles that are appropriate for the lines you are planning to build?

And if anything, it is the fact that Eglinton is already designed for LRV's that is requiring a LRT subway, not the order. Changing it now to a full subway line would require work to be stopped for a good two years while things are re planned, this would almost certainly result in a loss of funding during that time.
 
GraphicMatt said:
The "memo" drum produced above seems kind of prescient. Sue Ann Levy published a column today that's very critical of Stintz and calls for the removal of GM Gary Webster. Levy's views are often informed by what she's hearing from the Mayor's office.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/06/ttc-again-on-wrong-track
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Ford is supposed to have asked for GM Gary Webster head after he learn David Gunn, who Gary brought in was not going to support his transit plans a month or more ago. Not on what has reported the last few days. It was Gary plan to bring in outside people to show Ford his subway plan was a no go, how to trim back TTC, where to do some cutting and streamlining.

Stintz is supposed to have read the riot act to Ford that if she has to fire GM Gary Webster, she will step down as chair and cross to the other side.

If Ford removes Stintz or force her hand, he has open the door for his puppets to leave him as it would show he is not in control and out to lunch.

Based on what I heard from Stintz at Tuesday night meeting and what she said at Wed meeting, shows she speaks from both sides of her mouth at the same time, depending on who she talking to.

Someone said Tuesday night that this report was a sham and a waste of everyone time including TTC staff to her. She was not happy at the comment, but she open the door for it after making a statement related to the report.
Either there are staff filling in for various people at TTC meeting these day as the head person is not there and on holiday or they have either retired or quit. A number of faces I have not seen before.


At the end of the day, only one commsioner should be there, as the rest rubber stamp and suck. Stintz is not that person.
 
A dirty subway system is a reflection of Gunn's philosophy of maximizing cost recovery and cutting back on anything inessential to operating the vehicles, as would be concrete bunker stations for the Spadina line extension. He should have made the distinction between design quality and scale and figure out ways to improve cleanliness in the system. Unfortunately, he still sets things up to be a matter of choice between efficient operation and the look of the system to the people who have to use it everyday.
 
At least with the original Transit City's Eglinton plans, it would have been more accessible. With the Ford City's Eglinton it will be less accessible, because maintenance, emergencies, mischief, etc. will result in putting the escalators and elevators out-of-service. Just click on this link for the current list of out-of-service escalators and elevators. One elevator out-of-service and 13 escalators out-of-service at this writing, not counting emergencies or mischief incidents.
 
First of all Levy is an idiot! When she has nothing to write about she picks and hammers on TTC and Local 113

So if Ford wants to fire Webster who is his replacement. Its so easy to bark and yell but what is the solution, I don't hear ideas coming from Levy's mouth.

Webster is a smart cookie but even he i getting tired from all the BS coming from City Hall.
 
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