[Rainforest]

Just me being curious, but what would it have cost to build a streetcar ROW along Eglinton, Danforth, McCowan, and Progress/Borough/Triton Loop? Compared to the original cost of the SRT to McCowan, would it have been a suitable interim solution to building the subway extension in the "future"/present?

It would be definitely cheaper than SSE, and might even be cheaper than the light-rail line in the Uxbridge Sub corridor (SLRT).

But that's not a viable solution, first of all because of the required capacity that cannot be met by a street ROW line, secondly because it would retain the transfer and would be slower than the existing SRT.

 

[Leo_Chan]

It would be definitely cheaper than SSE, and might even be cheaper than the light-rail line in the Uxbridge Sub corridor (SLRT).

But that's not a viable solution, first of all because of the required capacity that cannot be met by a street ROW line, secondly because it would retain the transfer and would be slower than the existing SRT.

I mean instead of building the SRT in 1985, build the Scarborough Streetcar. Streetcar to subway "feels" more worth it than a light-subway to subway.

 

[Rainforest]

I mean instead of building the SRT in 1985, build the Scarborough Streetcar. Streetcar to subway "feels" more worth it than a light-subway to subway.

Yeah, that would work. The demand back then wasn't as high as today.

Actually, the original plan (before the switch to ICTS) was to build a light rail line, but not up McCowan (rather, closer to today's SRT, but approaching STC at grade).

 

[syn]

They have Nordstrom’s. And valet parking.

True. STC patrons have to suffer with Swavorski, Le Dolci and Hudson's Bay. I'm not sure how they manage to survive.

Sherway Mall may have some high end stores, but it's not in a high-income area. It's higher than the STC area, but certainly not to the degree that transit shouldn't be a priority for them too.

Scarborough’s transit needs are a different kettle of fish altogether. You have large numbers of people over wide areas needing to travel any number of places (potentially right across Scarborough, or further). The point is, the one stop won’t intersect with their travel needs, so even with it they remain disenfranchised. The options remain, replace the one stop with something more far flung for the same pricetag, or add additional routes and watch the price rise.
- Paul

Agreed.

This project worsen's Scarborough transit.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

True. STC patrons have to suffer with Swavorski, Le Dolci and Hudson's Bay. I'm not sure how they manage to survive.

Scarborough Town Centre is the worst major mall in Toronto. It’s hardly a step above Suffeerin Mall (aka Dufferin Mall). Even when I lived in Scarborough I wouldn’t step foot in there unless I was making a beeline for the Cineplex. CF desperately needs to renovate or raze/rebuild that complex a la Yorkdale Mall.

 

[Isotack]

Scarborough Town Centre is the worst major mall in Toronto. It’s hardly a step above Suffeerin Mall (aka Dufferin Mall). Even when I lived in Scarborough I wouldn’t step foot in there unless I was making a beeline for the Cineplex. CF desperately needs to renovate or raze/rebuild that complex a la Yorkdale Mall.

You clearly haven't been there in a very long time

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You clearly haven't been there in a very long time

I was there three weeks ago, and yes it’s still the worst major mall in Toronto.

 

[coopEng]

Scarborough Town Centre is the worst major mall in Toronto. It’s hardly a step above Suffeerin Mall (aka Dufferin Mall). Even when I lived in Scarborough I wouldn’t step foot in there unless I was making a beeline for the Cineplex. CF desperately needs to renovate or raze/rebuild that complex a la Yorkdale Mall.

They are both (Yorkdale and STC) Oxford.

 

[BurlOak]

Scarborough’s transit needs are a different kettle of fish altogether. You have large numbers of people over wide areas needing to travel any number of places (potentially right across Scarborough, or further). The point is, the one stop won’t intersect with their travel needs, so even with it they remain disenfranchised. The options remain, replace the one stop with something more far flung for the same pricetag, or add additional routes and watch the price rise.

- Paul

Agreed.

This project worsen's Scarborough transit.

Tried to replace the Transfer LRT with something better, but it was always resisted. This one stop subway extension was the only option that was acceptable to enough Councillor's and Provincial Liberals at the critical time when decisions were made in 2013/14.

 

[syn]

Scarborough Town Centre is the worst major mall in Toronto. It’s hardly a step above Suffeerin Mall (aka Dufferin Mall). Even when I lived in Scarborough I wouldn’t step foot in there unless I was making a beeline for the Cineplex. CF desperately needs to renovate or raze/rebuild that complex a la Yorkdale Mall.

You clearly haven't been there in a very long time

I don't think it's that bad. Definitely a lot better than the likes of Dufferin Mall and Cloverdale. It may not be Yorkdale but it's not a hellhole either. Honestly, most of these malls are pretty interchangeable.

In any case, my point didn't really have anything to do with the status of these malls but the idea that Scarborough has somehow been denied the same kind of transit service the rest of the city enjoys.

Anyone who has experience traveling throughout the city can attest that major problems exist throughout the system. There isn't some Scarborough related conspiracy at play.

I'm sure Kipling riders would absolutely love an RT connection to the Sherway area.

 

[crs1026]

I'm sure Kipling riders would absolutely love an RT connection to the Sherway area.

Yes, but how many of them are there?

There is no residential market around Sherway Gardens, other than a couple of condos. There is little or no customer traffic to Sherway by bus. The bus is useful for people working at Sherway, but that volume only rides close to opening time (ie well after "rush hour") and in the afternoon and around closing time. Busiest time for mall customers is in the afternoon, after high school gets out. Other than that, Sherway Gardens attracts people who arrive in SUV's. That market is not gonna ride transit, no matter how nice a subway we build. The numbers just aren't there.

If we tear down the big box plaza up where Walmart and Best Buy are, and replace with residential, maybe there is a volume justifying higher order transit. That's a big "if", and a decade or more away.

- Paul

 

[OneCity]

They are both (Yorkdale and STC) Oxford.

While its no Yorkdale, it's has really changed drastically and is becoming crazy busy. My only peeve is the frontage to the 401 with Walmart and the box stores that are a sad look for curb appeal from this side. But inside with the new restaurants and stores its really nice. Big change and really no reason to slag whatsoever. Comparing to Dufferin is absurd, not even remotely close.

Also wouldn't shock me to see the owners turn the parking lot into condos with the subway coming similar to what they just proposed with Yorkdale.

 

[Rainforest]

Problems exists across the whole transit system; however, Scarborough is the most remote from other places, and Scarborough residents have to travel longest to even get to a terminal subway station.

It is amusing that some people attempt to deny that fact, despite it being obvious at the first glance at the TTC map.

 

[Rainforest]

Another day, someone here complained about the poor North Rosedale, whose residents cannot get onto the subway because it is so crowded.

I'm not going to dismiss the problem of Yonge overcrowding. However, let's put it into perspective.

North Rosedale residents feel the problem on weekday mornings, if they want to travel towards downtown. Every other direction is open for them at every hour TTC runs. Downtown trips are easy and fairly short at any hour, except the three peak hours on the weekday mornings.

In contrast, most of Scarborough residents face extremely long commutes if they are using transit to get to another part of the city, at all times. On weekends, mid-days, counter-flow makes little difference, it is still extremely long.

Even then, I'd understand the desire to build the Relief Line first, to address the overcrowding; if the Scarborough project was meant to serve a new market.

However, in reality we have a large existing market served by SRT, the line that happens to be at its last breath and is kept on life support at a significant cost. We have to replace it anyway.

In this situation, I don't see a point of dropping SSE, and instead building something that cost 70% of it and yet makes the folks unhappy.

 

[syn]

Yes, but how many of them are there?

There is no residential market around Sherway Gardens, other than a couple of condos. There is little or no customer traffic to Sherway by bus. The bus is useful for people working at Sherway, but that volume only rides close to opening time (ie well after "rush hour") and in the afternoon and around closing time. Busiest time for mall customers is in the afternoon, after high school gets out. Other than that, Sherway Gardens attracts people who arrive in SUV's. That market is not gonna ride transit, no matter how nice a subway we build. The numbers just aren't there.

If we tear down the big box plaza up where Walmart and Best Buy are, and replace with residential, maybe there is a volume justifying higher order transit. That's a big "if", and a decade or more away.

- Paul

There is quite a bit of residential south of Sherway. There's residential around STC too, but an argument can be made that it's quite similar to Sherway - a suburban mall/node with a few condos. Just like Sherway, those who live in the vicinity are generally not wealthy. In any case, the type of people who visit both malls is completely irrelevant.

Much of the rational for building the SSE is the development it will bring. I'm sure the same argument could be made for the Sherway area.

This is the problem - building this kind of infrastructure in the hopes that that appropriate amount of development will occur simply doesn't work. Even if it did work, there'd be no local transit improvements. All they'd have is a subway connection to the city, with no funding left for a Crosstown East extension and funding needed for transit improvements in other areas of the city.

Building the most expensive single subway stop extension in world history seems like an idiotic idea considering all the other transit priorities in the city and Scarborough's own needs.