[wagthedog]

(sorry if this is repost)



im thinking of using that in my paper to argue against the sheppard, don and finch LRTs.

I figure if the Ontario government is willing to shell out "x" billions for some lofty goal of communal travel, it should be a breeze to designate a lane of highways as express bus only (if not all-day then at least during peak hours).

at the same time im thinking highways is unpredictable and congestion may negate any "express" in express lanes.


Good idea? bad idea?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Definitely a good idea. BRT lanes on 401 are desperately needed. We should also build bus-only interchanges at major streets to get busses straight from the subway and Go stations to the BRT lanes. It'd make highway bus a much better option for commuters, and wouldn't cost that much at all.

 

[wagthedog]

yeah arent they doing that in Markham now with the YRT on highway 407?

also to answer anyone who says that buses are slow to load people on: bus stations where you pay to enter, then when the bus comes you simply hop on. You could also look into printing transfers for quick loading.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Kind of. They're planning a totally separate Transitway along the 407. This would essentially be it's own separate rapid transit line, with stations and the like, and would also allow YRT and Go busses to use it to get to their destination, wherever it may be. It's planned to be completed some time in the future though, I think the date right now is set for 2030 completion.
The 401 BRT lanes would be a lot different than that, as I envision them. Instead they'd basically speeding up highway Go busses instead of being their own special RT line. Adding in Transit-only interchanges at the 427, Allen Road, Yonge St and McCowan would also speed things up hugely.
It's certainly not the norm, but I myself am wondering whether with all the development along Highway 7 and the need for this Transitway, whether it would just make more sense to built real RT along Highway 7 instead. But that's a different discussion and shouldn't be taken as sound thinking if it's just me

As for fare-paid bus stops, just take a look at Curitiba, the master of BRT building. Their BRT stops are essentially the same as our subway stations. Printing transfers or tickets from machines at sops is a pretty widespread phenomenon actually, and VIVA in York Region is using these machines to allow all-door boarding on their busses. It hugely increases efficiency compared to regular pay at the driver boarding.

 

[dunkalunk]

The region of waterloo is currently working with the MTO on implementing bus bypass shyoulder lanes for Highway 8 and the 401. These are not regular traffic lanes but are designed to be used by busses when traffic falls below 60km/h. Something like this could be easily implemented on the 401 at relatively low cost. While the 401 may have more than enough road capacity and bus traffic to support a fully dedicated bus lane, its something that should be considered and would not take away from as much existing capacity.

 

[wagthedog]

the thing ive noticed with curitba and bogota is not only do they have the balls to do something but the actually know what works for the city and what is realistic, the latter of which our politicians lack.

i think they're way too nostalgic of the old toronto and its streetcars.

one thing that LRT supporters keep bringing up is less emissions. Well last time I checked we are using coal and natural gas power plants to provide us with electricity and these plants produce a heck of an amount of emissions. i dont know the numbers but x-buses on the road will not probably produce the same emissions that these plants produce

 

[Second_in_pie]

the thing ive noticed with curitba and bogota is not only do they have the balls to do something but the actually know what works for the city and what is realistic, the latter of which our politicians lack.

i think they're way too nostalgic of the old toronto and its streetcars.

one thing that LRT supporters keep bringing up is less emissions. Well last time I checked we are using coal and natural gas power plants to provide us with electricity and these plants produce a heck of an amount of emissions. i dont know the numbers but x-buses on the road will not probably produce the same emissions that these plants produce

Well, a good 80% of our power is pretty much emissions-free (over 60% Hydroelectric, and 20% Nuclear.) Power generating stations also have the density of scale that allows them to be extremely efficient. I think that even if we got 100% of our power through GGH-based coal and oil-fired plants and then ran LRVs on them, one might find that it's still more efficient in terms of GHG emissions than traditional gasoline/diesel busses.

But emissions should come after proper network-building. Of course, we should be building to be environmentally friendly, but network building should come in first. Put the subways that we need where we need them, put the LRTs where we need them, and put the BRTs where we need them. Then, we can worry about getting hybrid, hydrogen or trolley busses, and the government can get more renewable energies into the power grid.

 

[doady]

I think 401 is too wide for any sort of rapid transit. Plus as other mentioned, there is already a transitway planned for the 407 corridor. And this is a new bus-only road altogether with its own stations, not just mere bus lanes as you propoer. These kind of BRT measures are meant for GO Transit crosstown regional bus service, so I don't think they would be an alternative to LRT or be made obselete by any LRT, which are meant for local service only.

 

[urbandreamer]

No.

Perhaps dedicated 1 lane in either direction for large transport trucks. (The right hand lane.) Slow moving cars, smaller trucks, buses etc would use the 2nd lane from the right.

 

[k10ery]

Well, a good 80% of our power is pretty much emissions-free (over 60% Hydroelectric, and 20% Nuclear.) Power generating stations also have the density of scale that allows them to be extremely efficient. I think that even if we got 100% of our power through GGH-based coal and oil-fired plants and then ran LRVs on them, one might find that it's still more efficient in terms of GHG emissions than traditional gasoline/diesel busses.

Huh? More like 25% hydroelectric, 45% nuclear in Ontario. You might be thinking of Canada-wide numbers, but I don't think water power from James Bay or the Columbia basin will be powering Toronto's LRT any time soon.

 

[kettal]

Where would the bus lane go in the 401? In the centre lanes? Then the bus will have to squeeze through 16 lanes of traffic to get in and out when it needs to do a drop off. In the right lane? Then the bus will get stuck behind other cars getting on, off, changing lanes, etc.

If you include this argument in your "paper", it will seriously hurt your credibility.

Same with your "electricity emissions" argument, which is also baseless.

 

[kettal]

If you need somebody to proofread your paper, don't hesitate to ask

 

[Second_in_pie]

Where would the bus lane go in the 401? In the centre lanes? Then the bus will have to squeeze through 16 lanes of traffic to get in and out when it needs to do a drop off. In the right lane? Then the bus will get stuck behind other cars getting on, off, changing lanes, etc.

I'd assume the centre lanes, because it would have the least impact on traffic, and would be least impacted by traffic.

The problem you note is why I think BRT lanes should come with bus-only interchanges at major transit roads.

 

[kettal]

I'd assume the centre lanes, because it would have the least impact on traffic, and would be least impacted by traffic.

The problem you note is why I think BRT lanes should come with bus-only interchanges at major transit roads.

By the time you've reconfigured the 401 to have special exits, lanes, stations, etc, you'd have spent enough to have built a subway.

I hope I don't have to go into all the reasons why 401 interchanges make poor transit nodes. Pretty much anywhere is better than the 401. Hydro corridors, rail corridors, storm sewer pipes, you name it.

 

[Second_in_pie]

By the time you've reconfigured the 401 to have special exits, lanes, stations, etc, you'd have spent enough to have built a subway.

I hope I don't have to go into all the reasons why 401 interchanges make poor transit nodes. Pretty much anywhere is better than the 401. Hydro corridors, rail corridors, storm sewer pipes, you name it.

Nope, just special exits. Go busses would still go to STC, York Mills and Yorkdale Stations, but would just use the ramps for easy highway access.