[Eug]

The strange part is that no visitor from out of town that has come visit me has ever asked about the streetcars, and most never knew that Toronto had them. To them, Toronto is:

1) The home of the CN Tower.
2) A short drive to Niagara Falls.

 

[EnviroTO]

Most of the visitors I have had from outside the country didn't know of the CN Tower either, and some of those that had seen it before thought it was the CNN Tower. Even a guy who came to work in the Toronto office for a couple of weeks from Detroit (which is right on the border and you would think they would know a bit more) was in the underground at rush hour and couldn't believe the crowd. He thought the population was so small that such crowds in Canada would be impossible. Montreal was the well known Canadian city for a long time and Toronto is still not thought of as THE Canadian city. Still with the streetcar touching so many neighbourhoods it is a symbol of Toronto because it falls into so many pictures and photographs. At street level there are many more pictures with the streetcar in it than the CN Tower.

 

[adma]

The strange part is that no visitor from out of town that has come visit me has ever asked about the streetcars, and most never knew that Toronto had them. To them, Toronto is:

1) The home of the CN Tower.
2) A short drive to Niagara Falls.

Eug's typical visitors from out of town

 

[W. K. Lis]

Most of the visitors I have had from outside the country didn't know of the CN Tower either, and some of those that had seen it before thought it was the CNN Tower. Even a guy who came to work in the Toronto office for a couple of weeks from Detroit (which is right on the border and you would think they would know a bit more) was in the underground at rush hour and couldn't believe the crowd. He thought the population was so small that such crowds in Canada would be impossible. Montreal was the well known Canadian city for a long time and Toronto is still not thought of as THE Canadian city. Still with the streetcar touching so many neighbourhoods it is a symbol of Toronto because it falls into so many pictures and photographs. At street level there are many more pictures with the streetcar in it than the CN Tower.

If the key words are "street scene", then it would include streetcars.

If the key words are "skyline", then it would include the CN Tower.

If the key words are "buildings", then it would include the City Hall (, Skydome, or OCAD, at the top of the list).

 

[Eug]

As usual, adma has nothing really relevant to contribute.

However, in case you're truly wondering who these people are... As a favour to friends and a family member, I used to host delegations from Asian universities and Asian financial and industrial institutions. So we're talking very well-educated and sometimes well-travelled people. Not once did I EVER hear anything about someone wanting to see a Toronto streetcar. If anything, they wondered why Toronto still had vehicles stuck on tracks on the main roads.

In any case the only time I've ever heard an out-of-towner saying they want to check out a streetcar in North America was someone going to San Francisco. In Toronto, it's not even on the radar.

BTW, I'll add to the above list. Some people coming to Toronto also seem to know about Toronto's reputation as a foodie and theatre destination. They come here specifically to see a show, and while they're here, they want to sample the various restaurants.

 

[W. K. Lis]

As usual, adma has nothing really relevant to contribute.

However, in case you're truly wondering who these people are... As a favour to friends and a family member, I used to host delegations from Asian universities and Asian financial and industrial institutions. So we're talking very well-educated and sometimes well-travelled people. Not once did I EVER hear anything about someone wanting to see a Toronto streetcar. If anything, they wondered why Toronto still had vehicles stuck on tracks on the main roads.

In any case the only time I've ever heard an out-of-towner saying they want to check out a streetcar in North America was someone going to San Francisco. In Toronto, it's not even on the radar.

BTW, I'll add to the above list. Some people coming to Toronto also seem to know about Toronto's reputation as a foodie and theatre destination. They come here specifically to see a show, and while they're here, they want to sample the various restaurants.

I guess all those tourists I see photographing our streetcars are actually photographing some other subject when the streetcars get into the shot. Odd that it doesn't happen that much with buses.

 

[adma]

As usual, adma has nothing really relevant to contribute.

However, in case you're truly wondering who these people are... As a favour to friends and a family member, I used to host delegations from Asian universities and Asian financial and industrial institutions. So we're talking very well-educated and sometimes well-travelled people. Not once did I EVER hear anything about someone wanting to see a Toronto streetcar. If anything, they wondered why Toronto still had vehicles stuck on tracks on the main roads.

Though by the sounds of things, they'd also be puzzled by "Stop The Spadina" and all of that--or if they opted to live in the GTA, they'd choose 905 McMansionville. So to be honest, I wouldn't want jerks like that calling the shots on Toronto, even if they're so-called "well-educated"...

 

[sodapop]

i'm intrigued by cities like london and new york because you can get virtually anywhere on the subway and it is super quick, if new york or london used a method as antiquated as our streetcars, i wouldn't think twice about there public transit system. as much as some streetcar lines should stay because in some cases they are tourist attractions in some cases and it would be unrealistic to replace them with buses or subways i think the rest should go. they travel at what? 20 km. an hour? and the lrt vehicles are better but still slow.

 

[Markster]

I guess all those tourists I see photographing our streetcars are actually photographing some other subject when the streetcars get into the shot. Odd that it doesn't happen that much with buses.

I believe the point is that tourists don't go to Toronto to see streetcars, but rather, they go to Toronto for other reasons. Once here, sure, they will see the streetcars and take pictures because it's not something they expect / see at home.

 

[Eug]

I believe the point is that tourists don't go to Toronto to see streetcars, but rather, they go to Toronto for other reasons. Once here, sure, they will see the streetcars and take pictures because it's not something they expect / see at home.

Bingo.

Streetcars don't make Toronto a tourist destination, but it's enough of a diversion from the norm to warrant a picture.

BTW, they also take pictures of the squirrels too, but squirrels don't make Toronto a tourist destination either. (A good example of this Queen's Park. You'll see these busloads of Japanese tourists who take their single picture of the buildings and then spend the next 10 minutes trying to get a bunch of pictures of the jittery squirrels.)

 

[GraphicMatt]

i'm intrigued by cities like london and new york because you can get virtually anywhere on the subway and it is super quick, if new york or london used a method as antiquated as our streetcars, i wouldn't think twice about there public transit system. as much as some streetcar lines should stay because in some cases they are tourist attractions in some cases and it would be unrealistic to replace them with buses or subways i think the rest should go. they travel at what? 20 km. an hour? and the lrt vehicles are better but still slow.

Toronto never chose to retain streetcars instead of building more subway lines. That's still not the case today. For a glimpse of what it would be like if Toronto had scrapped its streetcar system, take a look at damn near every second tier American city. Also take a look at the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" as it sort of covers this topic and, also, it's great.

 

[adma]

To return to this...

If anything, they wondered why Toronto still had vehicles stuck on tracks on the main roads.

I think there may be a deeper message behind Eug's "Asian delegation" observation and my snark at them--because to be honest, if one were to bone them up on Toronto history, they'd probably be thoroughly bemused and perplexed by the motivations behind Stop-The-Spadina, or 70s urban reform a la Crombie/Sewell/Jane Jacobs and the kind of fine-toothed urban observation which that supposedly engenders. To them, that much-ado-about-nothing might represent the "escape from progress" that led to the economic baton being passed on to, well, places like Asia. It's a self-consciously regressive code they cannot crack--and maybe all the more so with the Spadina being stopped on behalf of...nothing. Nothing but an emasculated Allen Road dumping traffic and fumes onto Eglinton, and an overdesigned white-elephant subway line, all to appease the urban-elite chattering class. A paralytic "nothingness" that's almost like a reverse version of what said chattering class says is in store for Ford's Toronto--here in practice for nearly four decades, with no "constructive" viable resolution in sight (as Rocco Rossi found w/his tunnel proposal).

Maybe it also helps explain why GTA's progress-minded "hyphenateds", presumably the kindred spirits to Eug's Asian delegations, either heavily went for Ford, or have colonized the 905 instead. So instead of fighting the McMansion-hating streetcar fetishists on their own geographic turf, they vent at the polling booth or steer clear of them altogether--and are satisfied with a simple-mindedly pidgin CN Tower-centric tourist cliche Toronto...

 

[spider]

Adma, we all hope you feel better now and have a nice nap.

 

[Eug]

Gotta love adma's bizarre rants.

The amusing part is the fact is several of the delegations were actually bunches of history professors (since my father was a history professor himself and used to organize educational tours for university faculty from Asian institutions that were partnered with Canadian universities or whatever). Yet, not surprisingly, they couldn't give two shiitake mushrooms about the history of Toronto roads or council squabbles or whatever.

 

[adma]

Well, then, enlighten the pompous jerks.