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Washington D.C. is planning to build a 37 mile (59.5 km) network of streetcars. Wonder what Rob Ford would tell them?

See http://dc.gov/DC/DDOT/On+Your+Street/Mass+Transit+in+DC/View+All/DC+Streetcar for more information.

Why doesn't Ford ask for left turns lanes along our streetcar routes? That would be better than getting rid of them. That is what some of the cities that are returning to streetcars are doing. Still some drawbacks, but better than it is now. Only trouble is, is there room in the road width for left turn lanes. Same problem even with buses.

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ssiguy2 said:
Ford won't get rid of the streetcars........it's just a promise to get the suburban vote. I think his concern is to make sure no new streetcar routes are built ie TransitCity. No great loss there.
What I can see him doing is not authorizing any repairs needed to the lines themselves resulting in the stoppage of the line and he simply won't rebuild the route.
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As I've said before, the mayor cannot unilaterally do that. Staff would have to eliminate the maintenance budget, the TTC commission would have to approve that decision, and Council would have to give final approval on the budget that didn't include any maintenance. Three levels of checks and balances means that it will be very hard for one person to change course overnight.
 
I hope that the outcome of this debate will be a realization that surface transit in general is a bad idea in a dense downtown area like Toronto's, especially when it offers the only way into or out of large swaths of the inner city. Replacing streetcars with buses is a step backwards, or at best sideways.
 
Chuck said:
I hope that the outcome of this debate will be a realization that surface transit in general is a bad idea in a dense downtown area like Toronto's, especially when it offers the only way into or out of large swaths of the inner city. Replacing streetcars with buses is a step backwards, or at best sideways.
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I think that once the DRL is built it'll take a significant amount of pressure off the downtown streetcar network. And if we declare all streetcar tracks their own ROW and eliminate some stops to make the streetcars faster, then that'll go along way to improving getting around downtown. There's no rule that says downtown streets MUST have 2 lanes of traffic. If those streetcar streets don't have as many cars trying to get places, people will use alternate routes or take the now faster streetcars to get where they want to (or the DRL).
 
I'm not overly concerned that Ford might ashcan the streetcars. Frankly, if they survived the 1960s, I'd say they can survive a term or two of any mayor. Despite the calumnies tossed about, I'm a suburbanite and I'd be opposed to losing any of our streetcar lines. I hate like hell being stuck behind the things, but by the same token I can say that of all the means of public transit I've taken in this town, the streetcars are the most pleasant. In truth, I'm for more of them, grade separated from automobile traffic. I like what they did on St. Clair: give the centre to the streetcars, ban parking on the thoroughfare, and move the vehicular traffic into the outer lanes. Park on the side streets, folks, and walk for 30 seconds. It won't kill yah.

As a matter of fact, the first thing I'd do if I were mayor would be to ban parking on any of the main thoroughfares in Toronto. That's one way Mississauga's got it all over this town. There's nothing like getting around in McCallionville without worrying about idiots playing automotive peek-a-boo/hide-the-salami zipping in and out of stretches of parked cars on a 60 km/h main road. Top of the wish list for Toronto, but I won't hold my breath.
 
The problem with streetcars is that people don't sense speed like they do with buses and subways. With buses, you have the engine revving which your mind equates to speed, though in many ways its acceleration is slower than streetcars. With subways, you have the tunnel walls rushing by an inch away, making you feel like you are going 100km/h+, when you are really going closer to 60km/h.

Not only do you not get these sensations with streetcars, but since the TTC has an obsession of stopping transit vehicles more often than they should, the passenger just feels slow. And since not everyone is a transit geek, even passengers equate the streetcar to a slow and outdated mode of transport.

Come election day, the years of TTC mismanagement could very well catch up to them...
 
spider said:
I am a little weary of having to read that old chestnut about a streetcar can carry more passengers than a bus therefore we need 5 buses to replace 3 streetcars and of course hire 2 more drivers. This is probably the case for 2 hours per day but the rest of the time the streetcar is carrying many fewer passengers than would fill a bus suggesting that a 1:1 replacement ratio is more realistic.
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What would they do to for those "2 hours a day"? You obviously don't take transit much in the city because if I go home from work at 4:30, 5:30, or 6:30 surface transit is still packed.

spider said:
As far as congestion is concerned here is a little test for streetcar riders to occupy themselves with when their streetcar is not moving. Take a look out the back window, if there is a lineup of traffic then the streetcar is the problem. Take a look out the front window of the streetcar, if there is no lineup of traffic then the streetcar is the problem.
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This is a result of near side transit stops, not speed and acceleration. Transit stops are at the intersection so obviously when the light turns green they will be at the front of the line. If they aren't at the front of the line they are forced to wait for the cars in front of them to go... at which point they pull up to the stop and block traffic while people board and often miss the green light completely.

The cause for congestion in the city is cars. Capacity of a road is a function of space and a car takes up more space per person that any other mode. A bus is no longer than 3 cars in length and the times per day a bus is carrying less than 3.6 passengers is very very rare. Unlike transit which mostly goes straight to the end of the line, cars turn at many intersections and turning is the greatest gridlock creator because you need to wait for an opening in traffic, pedestrians or both. When they install turning signals it only serves to balance the equation by making those going straight wait longer.
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One of the most efficient ways to reduce congestion is to make sure that there is a balance between supply and demand (market economy at work). It is easier in an enclosed area, but I think it could be adapted to work in major cities. Basically, you have to buy a permit to put a car on the road (non-transferrable), where there is a maximum number of permits and new permits are issued as old ones are retired. If you regularly drive a car on Toronto streets, you have to bid for a permit to put the car on the road (with the exception of rental cars and taxies etc.) i.e. personal use vehicles. A temporary toll to enter or drive on Toronto streets (1 day, or 1 week permits) would be sold at a premium (to the auctioned permits) to the personal vehicle use permits (tourists etc.). Tolls don't reduce traffic as much since it is not right there hitting you in the face :p Worst case scenario - the government makes a profit on building roads :eek:
 
Electrify said:
Come election day, the years of TTC mismanagement could very well catch up to them...
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I'd certainly say that years of TTC not dealing with some obvious issues is starting to hurt. Hopefully this will be a wake up call to whoever does become mayor.
 
Ford might not actually remove any streetcar lines.

But he certainly can reduce their off-peak frequency, to the point where the service becomes unusable.
 
At the end of the day, the only way streetcars will be removed from service is if they it can be shown that the equivalent number of buses can provide a higher quality of service to all road users. I challenge anyone to show that, given the conditions downtown.

No one person can unilaterally change the level of service provided on one route, and I doubt that the three levels of checks will allow that suggestion to survive.
 
If City funding to TTC is reduced, then we'll see off-peak service cut on many routes. This is what happened in 1996, and it took about 12 years for it to be restored.
 
gweed123- what a link-Thanks. I find it hard to believe that Ford is leading in the polls! That isn't the first time I have seen him behave like a child- that man has some very serious problems. I hope Toronto has a high turnout October 25 and Ford is tossed to the curb. He doesn't even (thankfully) has his council seat anymore.

I live in Scarborough, Brian Ashton's riding, but I hear more from that immature loudmouth named Rob Ford then I do my own councillor. There was an interesting aticle in yesterday's, Sept. 24, Mirror that was directed at Ford. It showed that the mayor's vote is equal to any other councillor's vote at City Hall and this democratic reality seems to escape Ford as he promises to rip up Toronto's existing streetcar network and cancel Transit City!

I really think that Rob Ford has some serious mental health issues and he doesn't understand some basic realities of public transit let alone the democratic process.
 
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