TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I think it's a Canadian thing. People from this country are too modest. It's almost as if people from Toronto don't want to acknowledge this city's greatness.
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
I think it's a Canadian thing. People from this country are too modest. It's almost as if people from Toronto don't want to acknowledge this city's greatness.
WislaHD
Superstar
I love Toronto because it is my home and it compared to other American cities is fantastic.
But I complain because I look at the European cities I've been too and feel like Toronto is lacking in many other regards.
But I complain because I look at the European cities I've been too and feel like Toronto is lacking in many other regards.
ehlow
Senior Member
I think people in other cities complain a lot as well, it's just that we naturally hear more of Torontonians complaining because we live here. At least that's my impression.
I honestly think most European cities in general are a big step up in terms of place-making and urban aesthetics/design than anything in North America. Just as an example: the lighting, bridge & public spaces beside a river running through a European town vs. many North American towns.
Having said that I actually like the grittiness & messiness (and even ugliness) of NA cities personally, at least to some degree. I also like the whole North American big-city feel of skyscrapers.
I honestly think most European cities in general are a big step up in terms of place-making and urban aesthetics/design than anything in North America. Just as an example: the lighting, bridge & public spaces beside a river running through a European town vs. many North American towns.
Having said that I actually like the grittiness & messiness (and even ugliness) of NA cities personally, at least to some degree. I also like the whole North American big-city feel of skyscrapers.
WislaHD
Superstar
To be fair, we have chosen to live in an area that has superb access to transit. Quick access downtown and very very very high bus frequency. It is not likely not a normal experience for this city.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I assume you two live in the same area?
I'm in the same position as you. I have a wealth of excellent transit options near my home. I love it.
I'm in the same position as you. I have a wealth of excellent transit options near my home. I love it.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
In what ways would you say Toronto is lacking? Major complaint is transportation infrastructure. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have much to complain about.
WislaHD
Superstar
Yah we both live in Midtown, him closer to Yonge, I closer to Bayview, but it feels the same.
I don't really know how to explain it as it is just a jumble of ideas in my head and I don't think it is just any one thing that Toronto is lacking, but rather my gripe is that Toronto is built as an automobile-centric city and the few areas of the city that are meant to be more livable for people just seem to not be comparable to anything of European standard. I think ultimately what Toronto is lacking most is the mentality and culture to build an inviting and exciting city meant for people.
The answer people in Toronto have to building things that are less automobile-centric seems to just be put a condo on it. That isn't good enough and it will fail in accomplishing that goal like it has on Sheppard, Liberty Village, Humber Bay Shores and in CityPlace.
What is the right answer then? Well, for one, we can start with having more livable streets. The one rare example of this in Toronto is unsurprisingly actually one of my favorite spots in the whole city, the Shops at Don Mills.
If the question is why isn't Toronto a world class city and a global tourist destination like Paris, Milan, Barcelona, New York, London are, then it is the above and we are making no strides to fix it.
I don't really know how to explain it as it is just a jumble of ideas in my head and I don't think it is just any one thing that Toronto is lacking, but rather my gripe is that Toronto is built as an automobile-centric city and the few areas of the city that are meant to be more livable for people just seem to not be comparable to anything of European standard. I think ultimately what Toronto is lacking most is the mentality and culture to build an inviting and exciting city meant for people.
The answer people in Toronto have to building things that are less automobile-centric seems to just be put a condo on it. That isn't good enough and it will fail in accomplishing that goal like it has on Sheppard, Liberty Village, Humber Bay Shores and in CityPlace.
What is the right answer then? Well, for one, we can start with having more livable streets. The one rare example of this in Toronto is unsurprisingly actually one of my favorite spots in the whole city, the Shops at Don Mills.
If the question is why isn't Toronto a world class city and a global tourist destination like Paris, Milan, Barcelona, New York, London are, then it is the above and we are making no strides to fix it.
gabe
Senior Member
Rail service sucks in this city and province compared to DC, NYC, Philly, Chicago. Via is crazy expensive and has limited time slots. Only cheap option to get around the Provence is by Greyhound bus.
rbt
Senior Member
LA actually has pretty decent regional rail too; even if some of it is actually Amtrak bus.
Of course, then there are cities like Miami, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, Phoenix ...
Ontario needs serious help but I think it might actually happen for the 5km to 150km range around Toronto.
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NorthYorkEd
Active Member
I come from Halifax, so Toronto is by far the best city I have ever lived in (with Vancouver a close second).
But I do think the citizens of this city have been betrayed by their "leaders" time and time again. Classic example is the waterfront and how it was cut off by an expressway and a wall of condos. All for short-term profits and self-interest.
My only other complaint is the lack of basic warmth. Still not used to being ignored, avoided, and feeling like a ghost in community gathering spots and parks. When I hear the talk about New Urbanism and bringing people together, I cynically think yeah, another place for Torontonians to gather and ignore each other.
I understand - big city, yadda, yadda, yadda. But the day to day street interactions could probably be better than it is. Not sure if all cities are so cold and standoffish.
But I do think the citizens of this city have been betrayed by their "leaders" time and time again. Classic example is the waterfront and how it was cut off by an expressway and a wall of condos. All for short-term profits and self-interest.
My only other complaint is the lack of basic warmth. Still not used to being ignored, avoided, and feeling like a ghost in community gathering spots and parks. When I hear the talk about New Urbanism and bringing people together, I cynically think yeah, another place for Torontonians to gather and ignore each other.
I understand - big city, yadda, yadda, yadda. But the day to day street interactions could probably be better than it is. Not sure if all cities are so cold and standoffish.
gabe
Senior Member
Ontario does need serious help, just visit Toronto's Coach Terminal and see what a disorganized mess the station is. The station is way too small for a city the size of Toronto, and it's run down. Last time i was there was on a holiday weekend, with thousands of students packed in the station. Of course Grayhound over sold just about every single bus. So I ended up waiting 1 hour and 40 mins for a 60 min bus ride to my destination. From now on i will stick to driving until the province get's better regional rail.
The section of Edward st between Bay and Elizabeth should be open for buses only. I have walked by there many times and seen a bus "stuck" because some a-hole drivers won't let bus into the lane.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I have a friend from Newfoundland and anothef from N.S. that said the exact same thing as you. He really didn't like Toronto because of it.
I have two other friends, one from Brooklyn, New York and the other from Northern California, who both said that the people of Toronto were the kindest and warmest they've ever met. The guy from California was actually impressed that people came up to him to give him directions when they saw he was lost. I guess it's all about perspective
Both were overall very impressed with the city. My friend from Brooklyn is thinking about moving her family to Toronto because she feels that her and her family will have greater opportunity here. The other from California fell in love with this city and wants to move here once he's done school.
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salsa
Senior Member
I have a friend from Newfoundland and anothef from N.S. that said the exact same thing as you. He really didn't like Toronto because of it.
I have two friends, one from Brooklyn, New York and the other from Northern California, who both said that the people of Toronto were the kindest and warmest they've ever met. The guy from California was actually impressed that people came up to him to give him directions when they saw he was lost. I guess it's all about perspective
Both were overall very impressed with the city. My friend from Brooklyn is thinking about moving her family to Toronto because she feels that her and her family will have greater opportunity here. The other from California fell in love with this city and wants to move here once he's done school.
For all the hype about NYC being "the greatest city in the world", it's always interesting when I hear New Yorkers praising Toronto.
M.R.Victor
Active Member
In the "first world problems" category, I would also add 3 major (minor) complaints:
1. There seem to have been precious few architects who knew how to properly address a street corner, throughout the history of the city.
2. There are those awful moments in the urban fabric where historical buildings have been demolished and suburban format buildings were inserted in their place, respecting the property line but completely breaking the rhythm of the street.
3. Facade treatments which use more expensive materials while the sides are clad in clashing, cheaper options, as though the side of the building is somehow invisible from the street.
1. There seem to have been precious few architects who knew how to properly address a street corner, throughout the history of the city.
2. There are those awful moments in the urban fabric where historical buildings have been demolished and suburban format buildings were inserted in their place, respecting the property line but completely breaking the rhythm of the street.
3. Facade treatments which use more expensive materials while the sides are clad in clashing, cheaper options, as though the side of the building is somehow invisible from the street.
johnwood
Active Member
I don't know about Atlanta but toronto per capital has a smaller subway compared to ny, boston and montreal