Dan416
Senior Member
Why would you waste millions of dollars converting it needlessly? It's already built as it is. Converting it would only add to the cost of extending it and reduce capacity. That's nearly as brainless as the SELRT.
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Why would you waste millions of dollars converting it needlessly? It's already built as it is. Converting it would only add to the cost of extending it and reduce capacity. That's nearly as brainless as the SELRT.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The only way for it to realize its full potential is to reduce the 401 to six lanes, throw bike lanes and street parking on Sheppard, implement a north-south east-west street grid, and zone the whole area from the 401 to Hillcrest Ave / Hawksbury Dr / Clareville Cr for high-rises. Barring that we should spend the kind of money a subway requires where the ridership projections and lack of alternative transportation options makes it money well spent.
GenerationW
Senior Member
The DRL makes the MOST sense, but until and unless it gets real political backing, it'll just be a fantasy line on a map.
Like him or not, the fact is Lastman was a great politician, and the bottom line for politicians is not sound fiscal management, but getting (re-)elected.
Palma
Senior Member
I agree.
UD2
Active Member
where were u agreers when the Transit City needed help?
sixrings
Senior Member
Just wish the Streetcars would get here already so people could see how much more they will be getting out of the new line. The new streetcars will be a HIT just like the new subway is. With so many people moving downtown or at least back into the inner Suburbs transit is going to become a bigger and bigger issue. Theres gridlock, theres future tolls, and gas will surely go up once the recession is over. ON top of that we cant have all these new people in the city driving. There simply isnt any room for them. The only answer is transit. Maybe we need to hit rock bottom before we realize that. Its sad that we have to learn the hard way.
Disparishun
Active Member
I don't really understand how a subway segment from Sheppard down to, say, Eglinton or St. Clair makes much sense. Finding a way to increase capacity and service on the RH line would be a far less expensive means to accomplishing this.
drum118
Superstar
Cost for the conversion vs. building the extension has a far grater saving than building the extension westward, let alone east.
Taking the line to Downsview or Keele or Weston Rd would be in operation years sooner to service the riders better before you got the tunnel started being built.
drum118
Superstar
The DRL would be intercepting riders from the east sooner and would be carrying less riders than the Yonge Line until years down the road.
Within the next 20 years, the Yonge line will see 100,000 new riders who live within a 2 block radius of a station now based on what been built now and what is plan for.
Now where do you put these new riders as well the increase of ridership feeding into this line from all direction without another line in the east to the city core?
The RH line will better service the 905 with all day 15 minute service than the Yonge subway if they are going to the city core in the first place. Toronto riders will be the riders who are willing to spend the extra fare to use this line.
Based on the current funding issue for TTC, look for a zone system to come back that was removed in 72 and the last year TTC made a profit.
It makes no sense nor is there any real ridership demand to take the Sheppard line to STC when the real need is further east and support the Malvern area.
Palma
Senior Member
I did not even know Transit city existed until I started coming onto UrbanToronto forums. And when i did I never agreed with most of it and the line from Miller that there is no money to spend on subways in Toronto. The way I think it would work great is subway on Bloor (which we have), streetcar on St. Clair (which we have) subway on Eglinton, streetcars on Lawrence (buses are always packed) and then i could see the subway on Sheppard and Steeles. No one knows what the future holds.
In 1847, Bloor was the northern limit for Toronto. Robert Turner purchased 5 acre of land on the crest of a hill and carved an estate from the oak forest. The midtown area developed between Christie and Hillcrest Drive and south above Davenport and north to just below St. Clair. Eventually he sold off parcels of land from his estate and 100 houses were built. Look at St. Clair today - ROW streetcar, 2 subway stops, restaurants, cafes, retail, parks, expensive homes and a trendy place to live as the trend to live a more urban lifestyle has taken hold vs the suburban lifestyle in Toronto. But then again the area around there was built for walking with houses closer together. Walking 15 min around there is a different experience than walking 15 minutes on Lawrence and Wilson and Sheppard.
Another issue is Lawrence West, Wilson and Sheppard West did not develope retail like Eglinton, St. Clair, Bloor, College, Dundas, Queen, King St. did and with all those side streets having an easy place to walk to dine, bank and shop.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded seeing a conversion of Sheppard to LRT. It was the transfer at Don Mills that was most irritating. A conversion to LRT also offered branching opportunities, with branches to Malvern, the zoo and Scarborough Town Centre.
But then you get the people who believe that it's not worthwhile to 'reduce capacity'. If that's the argument, then extend the damn subway.
What I did not like (and I still feel this was an accurate emotion) was the effort by the previous administration to use LRT as a tool to permanently stunt subway construction in the suburbs. Otherwise, why the rush to go on Sheppard East, when Eglinton was vastly, a more pressing candidate for any transit dollars coming to Toronto?
I'm not all in favour of Rob Ford's plans. But oddly enough, if a lot of it comes to pass, Toronto may well have good bones to build on, so to speak.
But then you get the people who believe that it's not worthwhile to 'reduce capacity'. If that's the argument, then extend the damn subway.
What I did not like (and I still feel this was an accurate emotion) was the effort by the previous administration to use LRT as a tool to permanently stunt subway construction in the suburbs. Otherwise, why the rush to go on Sheppard East, when Eglinton was vastly, a more pressing candidate for any transit dollars coming to Toronto?
I'm not all in favour of Rob Ford's plans. But oddly enough, if a lot of it comes to pass, Toronto may well have good bones to build on, so to speak.
Mapleson
Active Member
I believe two parts of the rush on Sheppard East were: (1) having something in the ground to make the plan harder to throw out, as Eglinton was the most valuable, building Sheppard East first would encourage it wasn't just dropped; and (2) an expected surge in construction activity and wanting to get work out early to avoid premium pricing.
Disparishun
Active Member
You augment the lines you already have.
Not sure what the Sheppard line has to do with any of this. Nor do I understand how including, in a DRL, a subway segment from Sheppard down to, say, Eglinton or St. Clair makes much sense. That's a lot of building without much return.
Finding a way to increase capacity and service on the RH line would be a far less expensive means to providing a north-south route for those living within that north-east quadrant, or living closer to it than to Yonge Street. With frequent, all-day service, interconnection-oriented realignment at Finch and Sheppard, and an additional step at Eglinton, the RH GO line would be intercepting riders from the east sooner and would be carrying less riders than the Yonge Line until years down the road.
I agree with this. While converting the existing tunnel to LRT would not be my first choice, if it was part of a plan for Sheppard that actually included a branch to STC and a branch to Malvern, I would be more inclined to support it. Having said that, I don't think that Sheppard should have been anywhere near the top of the priority list, especially when it was announced that the funds were being reduced. The whole Sheppard line should have been delayed before they truncated Eglinton and Finch West.
I agree with the Rob Ford statement as well. While his Sheppard plan is a fools errand, I think his push to have a single continuous Eglinton-SLRT line will benefit Toronto greatly in the future.
sixrings
Senior Member
How many riders do you figure will be added to the spadina line? Downsview park 1300, Lawrence heights revitalization 4500, The Downsview Subway land from Sheppard to Wilson??? The station condos, gremercy park condos, Treviso, metro gate, and whatever happens at Finch and Keele? Then you take that number and you multiply by a average of three people person condo and I fgure theres roughly 40,000... But thats only my guess.. I could be overly optimistic
http://www.lanterradevelopments.com/pdfs/news/natpost-2011-02-05.pdf
http://www.insidetoronto.com/commun...at-issue-lawrence-heights-plans-to-be-reduced
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/894471--downsview-park-mulls-plans-for-650-housing-units