[Northern Light]

https://torontolife.com/city/mamdani-style-public-grocery-stores-are-coming-to-toronto-eventually/

The City of Toronto wants to get into the grocery business, council decided today.

Taking a page from New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani, Toronto will look into opening four non-profit, city-run grocery stores, which would sell staple goods at prices lower than those of grocery giants like Loblaws and Sobeys.

According to the motion put forward by Councillor Anthony Perruzza, the city would open four grocery stores, one for each of Etobicoke, North York, downtown and Scarborough, and in low-income areas where fresh groceries are hard to come by.

Despite what some may think, margins in grocery are not typically high.

Its a business built on volume.

It also relies on low paid staff.

If you could replicate the buying power of a Loblaws, but removed all margin, if you didn't improve pay, you might be able to pass on a savings of ~5% on average.

IF you paid staff properly, there would likely be no savings at all.

Four stores will never duplicate the scale of a Loblaws or Empire.

I'm not really sure what the point is here.

IF you throw in every tax exemption, build on public land etc etc.

Maybe you can drive prices down 10%; if you target the cuts to 'essentials' (100 skus max), you might get that to 15-20% on those items; though, you'd likely be selling below cost with the intent to recover that from profitable items.

The net margin in big grocery is only ~3-4%.

Gross margin (the mark up on the cost of your can of beans is typically in 25-35% range) but that is required to cover rent, insurance, staffing, electricity etc.

Ah well. We'll see how well this works, or doesn't

 

[longfortheoldview]

Ironically, that looks like a lot of Frills.

 

[torontowest91]

or it becomes the Costco model - hardly any markup on items - but then you buy a membership... lol

 

[afransen]

Despite what some may think, margins in grocery are not typically high.

Its a business built on volume.

It also relies on low paid staff.

If you could replicate the buying power of a Loblaws, but removed all margin, if you didn't improve pay, you might be able to pass on a savings of ~5% on average.

IF you paid staff properly, there would likely be no savings at all.

Four stores will never duplicate the scale of a Loblaws or Empire.

I'm not really sure what the point is here.

IF you throw in every tax exemption, build on public land etc etc.

Maybe you can drive prices down 10%; if you target the cuts to 'essentials' (100 skus max), you might get that to 15-20% on those items; though, you'd likely be selling below cost with the intent to recover that from profitable items.

The net margin in big grocery is only ~3-4%.

Gross margin (the mark up on the cost of your can of beans is typically in 25-35% range) but that is required to cover rent, insurance, staffing, electricity etc.

Ah well. We'll see how well this works, or doesn't

I think we know how this will work. Loss-making enterprise subsidized through taxation on productive activity. And with the level of customer service one might expect from government.

 

[evandyk]

I prefer the Dundas store - it's clean and modern. The Bloor location is shabby.

The Dundas one is definitely shinier, but the quality of the meat at Bloor is the same level.

 

[Towered]

The Fresh 'N Wild at King and Spadina is gone.

 

[christiesplits]

The Fresh 'N Wild at King and Spadina is gone.

I'm not surprised. I walked by a lot and never noticed many customers. Based on my few visits, the store interior and layout also looked a bit worn and needed a refresh. It had the prices of a Pusateri's with the look of a Rabba's.

Perhaps they saw the near future Whole Foods at King Toronto as the writing on the wall? cc: @Northern Light

 

[onthestreet]

I'm not surprised. I walked by a lot and never noticed many customers. Based on my few visits, the store interior and layout also looked a bit worn and needed a refresh. It had the prices of a Pusateri's with the look of a Rabba's.

Perhaps they saw the near future Whole Foods at King Toronto as the writing on the wall? cc: @Northern Light

It's actually coming back in a new concept. Art was posted on the location for a few months before they underwent construction.

 

[evandyk]

Something like the Longos in the Path would work well there. A lot of prepared foods/hot table, then a good selection of basic staples.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm not surprised. I walked by a lot and never noticed many customers. Based on my few visits, the store interior and layout also looked a bit worn and needed a refresh. It had the prices of a Pusateri's with the look of a Rabba's.

Perhaps they saw the near future Whole Foods at King Toronto as the writing on the wall? cc: @Northern Light

The store was a curious mix, it had some moderately upmarket offerings in its meat counter and HMR (Home Meal Replacement is industry jargon for everything from rotisserie chicken to a pre-made sandwich) yet, it had an upper 1/2 level that looked like a run-down convenience store with a random assortment of goods.

It was cramped (though that's most tough to avoid for anything approaching full-line grocery there.

Its relationship to the street was poor too. They actually did a nice job w/the windows and the way they integrated the produce display.....

But then they did this for a patio:

If you're patio looks like this (not just ugly, empty), late in the morning in June........you're doing something wrong.

Its not hard to figure out either......look at it.............where do I get my coffee or salad or w/e to sit outside? its not intuitive

The primary entrance is off to the right of this image:

I get it, this arrangement creates a more space efficient interior.

But it doesn't work.

The entrance should have been on the corner; the secondary exit on Spadina to the north removed. Either a cafe goes in the box/vestibule with a smaller patio just outside, or it goes on the upper level in either case with a smaller patio.

Then you let that window showcase do its job. If you're putting the cafe function north, use the vestibule on King to showcase baked goods in the window, great way to drive traffic.

It wasn't a bad idea , really, I think it just suffered from being a bit 'unfinished' and from some relatively minor execution errors.