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Optimal solution should be...


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Agreed, especially regarding a potential connection to the DRL line, as I was replying to M II A II R II K's post regarding how it could be done, not whether or not it should. Although a partly underground re-route of the line might potentially one day have its value if there is, for example, a South York-Toronto express service (as a bypass of the more localized Yonge subway service, considering when it is extended to the future RHC).
 
We didn't get a subway so they shouldn't either. Hyuk!

This marks the beginning of the campaign against the DRL by bitter suburbanites.

End of the line for subways
Scarborough had to accept an LRT, so there’s no cash for Downtown Relief Line either
christina-blizzard
By Christina Blizzard ,QMI Agency
First posted: Saturday, April 14, 2012 07:12 PM EDT

You knew it had to happen.

No sooner had city council gleefully voted to foist LRTs instead of subways on Scarborough, over the vigorous objections of suburban residents, then the cry went up from all the smug downtowners.

They want the Downtown Relief Line.

How to explain it to all those self-entitled, Starbuck-swilling snobs?

Oh, this might work: Not a friggin’ chance.

If there’s not enough cash for Scarborough’s subways, there’s not enough for downtown.

Get on your bikes, guys. It’ll be a cold day in Hell, Ont. before this city ever builds another kilometre of subway system.

What planet are these folk living on?

They didn’t just tell Scarborough to get lost.

They’ve sealed this city’s fate. We’re doomed to gridlock forever.

Council’s decision is akin to that of former premier Bill Davis’ cancellation of the Spadina Expressway in 1971.

That move ensured no other expressway would be built in Toronto, including the Scarborough Expressway.

So Scarborough has the worst of all possible worlds. No subways, no decent highways.

This city, indeed, the GTA, is grinding to a halt because of half-baked plans gone awry.

Spadina was the first. It begat the Allen Expressway, which begat the Allen Road when Davis stopped construction.

It now ends at Eglinton Ave., creating a massive bottleneck.

Other transportation disasters include the cancellation of four subways by Mike Harris.

Shovels were already in the ground for the Eglinton Ave. West line when the Harris government filled it in, citing a lack of funding.

It would be up and running by now if it had gone ahead.

Then there’s the Union Station to Pearson Airport direct rail link.

It took years to get any progress on that line. While other cities had multiple transit links to their airports, drivers here sat fuming in traffic, often missing flights when highways jammed up.

No sooner had work started when the protests began.

Local residents complained about the noise. Hello? Do you have any idea how much the value of your property has increased?

Another group popped up saying diesel trains would kill their children. They wanted electric trains, despite the hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs that would add.

Diesel trains on the entire GO Transit system don’t kill babies, but watch out when it’s in their backyard.

Now, some politicians are urging Metrolinx to put more stops along the line. Not quite sure which part of “direct†and “link†they don’t get.

Politicians don’t have the vision to set out a plan for the GTA and follow through with it, no matter what.

They’re meek, timid and too easily cowed by noisy special interest groups.

It’s not just transit.

Look at what happened with the gas-fired plants the provincial government cancelled in Misissauga and Oakville.

The Mississauga one was almost finished when Premier Dalton McGuinty pulled the plug during last October’s election.

Now the government is being sued for $300 million by the financing company associated with the plant.

That doesn’t even take into consideration the estimated $1 billion it will cost to scrap the plant and move it elsewhere.

And McGuinty has the nerve to ask NDP leader Andrea Horwath to tell him where to make $1 billion in savings?

Here’s some ideas: Don’t build $1 billion gas-fired plants and then pull them down. Don’t squander $1 billion on an eHealth boondoggle that benefited Liberal insiders. And don’t waste more millions on an Ornge Air Ambulance fiasco.

If this city had the billions of dollars they’ve put into not building highways, not building gas plants and in fighting any development that does manage to slip past the eagle eyes and slow wits of politicians, who like to nix every worthwhile project, we could build a subway to the moon.

Or at least to Scarborough.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/13/end-of-the-line-for-subways#disqus_thread
 
Dang, I knew we should have diesel-fueled LRTs in the burbs instead! And the author couldn't even get the Mike Harris' Axe right...cancelled 4 subways?

AoD
 
The sun showed it's true colours with that piece by Blizzard. The paper had never shown even a passing interest in the public transit file (except for the ttc employee scandels) until Ford became mayor and brought the Sheppard subway back onto the table. Only then did the Sun suddenly become interested in public transit. Now telling it's readers that we should not build a subway in the single spot in the city where it is fully warranted and needed just because it's downtown goes to show just how little interest the paper has in true public transit planning.
 
It's truly idiotic -- the people the DRL would most help would be those going into downtown from the suburbs, as it would ease traffic on the system overall. And there is no way we could add more subways to the suburbs without first having that added capacity on the downtown lines.
 
Does the Sun even know what they are talking about anymore? I have to wonder...that article is a disgrace.
 
Thank goodness almost every sentence was its own paragraph, as it saves some readers' mouth muscles from tiring too quickly.
 
Many of the comments are assinine but his general conclusion is correct............Toronto will never get a DRL.
There are essentially two people for this:
1} Miller. Miller insisted on better transit for the burbs while completely over looking the need for a DRL. The province bought in and now we have LRT to the burbs but no money left for a DRL and there won't be for decades to come as Queen's Park is broke.
2} The citizens of Toronto. Despite all the touchy feely talk, Torontonians have made it quite clear..........transit is not a priority. Things cost money and the people of Toronto have made it quite clear that when push comes to shove they are not willing to hand over a dime for transit expansion. Toronto certainly can't blame it on Queen's Park or even Ottawa as Ottawa will be contributing $300 million for Sheppard LRT which is exactly $300 million more than the people of Toronto are willing to chip in.
Despite Toronto's time honoured reputation for blaming Queen's Park or Ottawa for what ails them, it is Toronto's political inertia, lake of planning, and absolute refussal to fund transit expansion over the decades that has gotten them into the gridlock they now face.
Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, and so to be Ottawa and Kitchener have been expanding their rapid transit systems over the last decades at a dizzying pace and Toronto has added just 6km of subway over the last quarter century. I would say that's embarrasing except it's an insult to the word.
Think about this........in 1984 Vancouver had zero km of rapid transit and now has 70km and will have 95 km of total grade separated rapid transit in just 8 years ina metro just over one-third the size. In just 2 years Calgary will have nearly 60km of rapid transit LRT with more on the way and while Edmonton has not expanded as fast it still is growing in a metro one-sixth the size of the GTA.
You see they know something that the rest of the planet knows but Torontonians can't seem to get their heads around..........building transit requires both money and a setting of prioritites. They have made it clear thru their own tax dollars that transit is a priority and they are willing to pay for it even if it means other things have to wait or even not get built.
They put their money where their mouths are while Toronto wants other people to put their money where Toronto's industrial size mouth is.
Toronto will never get a DRL or anything else until they realize that no one owes them anything and that transit costs money and demanding others pay for it is childish, irresponsible, and down right offensive.
Torontonians have spoken loud and clear........transit is not a priority because if it was it would be willing to make the sacrifices needed to get it built.
 
The need for a DRL is getting clearer every day at Bloor/Yonge, so much so that even the average rider can see it. Once it is made clear that further expansion that feeds into the subway can't happen without a DRL, I think that attitudes will change.
 
The need for a DRL is getting clearer every day at Bloor/Yonge, so much so that even the average rider can see it. Once it is made clear that further expansion that feeds into the subway can't happen without a DRL, I think that attitudes will change.

The trouble is with politicians who do not take public transit on a regular basis, except for photo-ops. And not just to and from city hall, but around their ward, shopping, committee meetings, and fact findings.
 
I'll believe in the DRL when I see it under construction. For now, it's just a transit geek fantasy.

Although I fully agree with her premise that if there was no money for the Sheppard line, there's no money for the more expensive DRL, which will cost an arm and a leg more than simply finishing the Sheppard line.
 
Although I fully agree with her premise that if there was no money for the Sheppard line, there's no money for the more expensive DRL, which will cost an arm and a leg more than simply finishing the Sheppard line.

The perception is there now that the City decided to build Transit City and not subway. It will be very hard politically to cancel or delay phase 2 of TC and switch to the DRL.
 
It will be very hard politically to cancel or delay phase 2 of TC and switch to the DRL.

There is no Phase II anymore. Though if the other half of that promised Prov funding were to finally come through, Metrolinx knows full-well where it should go: the eastern leg of the DRT line.
 
I'll believe in the DRL when I see it under construction. For now, it's just a transit geek fantasy.

Although I fully agree with her premise that if there was no money for the Sheppard line, there's no money for the more expensive DRL, which will cost an arm and a leg more than simply finishing the Sheppard line.
When are we going to get over this idea that every corner of the city is equally deserving of the same kind of mass transit? This is why the whole subway vs LRT debate has been so painful to watch - it's playing out like the debate is between subways and only subways doled out equally around the city or LRT and only LRT doled out equally around the city. This bizarre attitide that if Sheppard doesn't get its subway then neither should any other part of the city, ever, is completely mindless and has created a disfunctional transit planning environment. The real answer isn't either of the above. It's subways, LRT, and commuter/regional rail where the demand warrants each one. And the DRL is far, far more appropriate for heavy rail technology than Sheppard. Sheppard isn't entitled to a subway just because another part of the city gets one.

Sorry if I'm ranting, but this while debate is beyond ridiculous.
 

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