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@IanO you have completely lost the point of your original comment that I took objection to -- Edmonton's downtown compares poorly to major U.S. cities. I have no disagreement with the centres of Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Calgary (and even Saskatoon). I have simply been providing you information to refute the U.S. comment that you made. There are good U.S. examples of solid, functional urban cores, but you missed them -- here are a few -- Austin and San Antonio in Texas, Memphis and Nashville in Tennessee, Seattle, San Diego and Portland on the west coast, Atlanta, Georgia... examples. COVID has been a stress on ALL urban areas and Edmonton has not escaped that reality. Retail is in a state of flux in ALL urban areas (particularly in North America) -- reasons other than COVID include the growing predominance of internet sales; the growing cost of permits, build-out, and staffing for a bricks-and-mortar store; high and growing lease rates; and the discontinuity of a walk-able neighborhood. These are the main ones -- there are minor irksome elements facing retailers as well -- things like QR codes that are easily scan-able to find better deals than the store one is in; the simple fact that one megalith -- Amazon -- now controls more than 50% of retail sales, forcing new potential stores into subserviency (most retailers hate the grasp of Amazon while the buying public seems oblivious to their pain).
Edmonton has the makings of a good mix but when you get the City administration destroying the potential viability with a fixation on planters and benches (most recently concepts for 103 A Avenue, the south side of the downtown library and the riverside melange from rossdale to Groat Rd.), it doesn't help the prospects for an "active downtown". And yet it seems to be pretty easy to assuage Edmontonians into a lull of complacency, even on a progressive site like Skyrise Cities. That is why I have been so hard on specific developments in the form of criticism; if Edmonton keeps accepting mediocre to less-than-mediocre standards there will be no improvement. The Ice District, for example, started off as a stellar possibility for downtown revival (it even had Calgarians salivating), but since its introduction it has been sliding backwards -- loss of the entertainment potential of the dine-in theatres, loss of major retailers and hospitality entities in BG, loss of the public park roof garden, and throwing over occupancy of the prime retail space to banks. It may recover over years ahead, but the Ice District is off to a poor start. And as the realtors scratch their collective heads as to what went wrong, it bodes extremely poorly for Phase II starting anytime soon.
We can't scramble around for "good enough for Edmonton" ideas, we need exceptional players to step up in exceptional ways. So far we can only hook our "hope-wagon" to a few notables -- Beljan, Dub, Cantor... We have got, however, to be able to clearly discern "excellent", from "good", from "poor", from "bad". For starters I recommend a couple of new categories (or at least the re-naming of old ones) on the building rating systems -- a "good-enough-for-Edmonton" label, a "get this out of my town" label, and, on the positive side a "this will make Calgary jealous" label and an "envy of the world" label. We have to collectively stiffen our spines a little more. Also, I recommend adding labels to other categories so that the discernment covers more than just architectural style of buildings.
 
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^^

it’s not enough to have a plan, even if it’s a good one. even a good plan can fail can fail in its implementation and leave things worse than if they’d just been left alone.

i think there is an unseen missing priority in tour plans that we pay lip service to but then completely ignore in our selection and execution criteria. that missing piece is the cost and the inconvenience to the users and those adjacent to our infrastructure projects whose livelihoods and/or existence are blithely put on hold not for a weekend but for years while our never ending projects are under construction to complete our ever evolving plans.

edmonton seems to think nothing of shutting down bridges and entire streets in its core not for days or weeks or months but literally for years, often times concurrently. it’s so bad that whether you’re walking or driving or using transit, or new motto could well be “edmonton - regardless of where you are or where you want to go, you can’t get there from here”.

this isn’t a new phenomenon, it’s been like that for decades as we rush to implement the latest shiny penny project with little or no thought given to protecting and maintaining what we already have as we do that. these costs, borne almost entirely by the private sector, need to become a part of the selection and implementation analysis.
 
Edmonton's downtown is terrible because of "construction detours", "too many flower planters" and a "failure to speak up"? I wonder if people haver ever visited other cities because many of the things listed above have very little to do with our current problems (even if they might be legitimate irritations).

First, I think it is important to acknowledge that while there are very clear problems with our downtown, the fact that they are being noticed is a good sign. For decades there were so few residents and storefront businesses in the downtown that pubic disorder and a lack of development was simply irrelevant to most people. The massive urban damage done to our downtown since the 60s has created a gapping hole that cannot be fixed quickly and for years almost no progress was made (the 90s in particular).

I think it is also important to acknowledge that while there certainly seems to be more people with mental health issues and petty criminals downtown, these social problems are not of the City's creation and generally should not be a municipal responsibility to fix.

With all that said, if we are taking about things that are squarely within the City's control to change, I would suggest that currently they fail at basic municipal maintenance. Huge capital dollars are spent on infrastructure and then no operational dollars follow to ensure assets are properly maintained. Publicly-owned areas downtown are generally shabby, old, dirty or damaged, and this leaves the impression that one one really cares. I think the City needs to take visible steps to demonstrate that downtown is a priority by ensuring it is generally clean and that any problems are quickly repaired/addressed. Unfortunately this won't directly resolve many of the underlying issues in our downtown like the small residential population or the economic impacts on businesses caused by the pandemic, but I think it is realistic place for the City to start if it is serious about making the core a more pleasant place to be for all Edmontonians.
 
^^the recent lrt project is a good example. I think Ian commented on a previous post that the city needs to do a better job on 102 ave for instance. Out in front of the dt YMCA is one example of a small section of track that has taken so long to complete once they closed off the street. Positively, the city was able to get the 101 st and 97 street intersections done fairly quickly - more of that is needed.

So is the answer new people in municipal government to direct administration? I take it the dt business association has not had success highlighting this issue? Is Councillor Scott McKeen not advocating for this enough? Who is running for council to advocate for these changes? I'll be committed to volunteering on such a campaign.
 
^outside of the YMCA was primarily a staging area... convenience instead of Just-In-Time delivery like most condo/office developments have to do on their sites. We simply cannot shut stretches such as this down in our core for that kind of time again.

We need stronger advocacy within admin, on Council and by way of 3rd party groups such as the Chamber, DBA, BOMA etc.
 
IanO said:
We need some focus, a plan (oh wait, we have one*), dedication. decisiveness and an awareness and acceptance that we are underdelivering. I should make mention and very clear at that, that this is both a public and private equation.

*https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PDF/Capital_City_Downtown_Plan_May_27_2010.pdf
(just noticed that I am listed on it)
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Oh no, our city sure does not lack for plans. I suppose the issues might be whether they are good plans, realistic or the effort put into implementation after. My casual observation is that the city comes up with these ideas for development and somehow magically expects the private sector to follow them and seems surprised when that does not happen. Oh yeah, maybe the city puts up some new street lights and a few new sidewalks and thinks that will fix things, which I think is maybe the equivalent of lipstick on a pig. I suppose it gives the appearance of action while avoiding anything that might be difficult or politically controversial in any way.
 
David A said:
Oh no, our city sure does not lack for plans. I suppose the issues might be whether they are good plans, realistic or the effort put into implementation after. My casual observation is that the city comes up with these ideas for development and somehow magically expects the private sector to follow them and seems surprised when that does not happen. Oh yeah, maybe the city puts up some new street lights and a few new sidewalks and thinks that will fix things, which I think is maybe the equivalent of lipstick on a pig. I suppose it gives the appearance of action while avoiding anything that might be difficult or politically controversial in any way.
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I don't know that this is necessarily true. The current city council has made some landmark decisions in terms of plans and policy that will most certainly impact people and businesses for decades to come. I am thinking in particular about the ability to split most RF3 lots and the abolishment of parking minimums. These are not half measures and many, many other North American cities have not had the courage to make these types of changes.

It is easy to say that Council has not in 4 years solved all the ills of our city, but the fact of the matter is that our current problems were set in motion decades ago and there is not a lot municipal leaders can do now to bring about wholesale change. That isn't to say nothing can be done, nor that Council has been perfect, but I think there needs to be an acknowledgement that city-building is a slow process and the people we elect now will be responsible for the way our city looks not just in 4 years, but for quite some time into the future. Hopefully voters keep that mind this October because these decisions absolutely matter.
 
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Yes, the change to the parking minimums was a good thing, but I don't see it doing a lot to fill vacant spaces downtown or putting new buildings in unused or under utilized lots downtown. It may help in other parts of the city more.

On a related note, I've never understood why the city has meters in effect on Saturdays, most areas downtown are really not that busy then. Perhaps provide 1 or two hours parking for free. That is an example of something that was put in place by past councils perhaps decades ago, but could be changed and have some positive impact for downtown retailers.
 
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IanO said:
Sure, but how many millions of feet since 2010?

How many tens of thousands of new residents?
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firstly, after two decades it’s thousands, not tens of thousands.

not that it would matter when it’s not enough for the inside of our convention centre to be a homeless shelter, they want the outside as well.

and not that it would matter when they want to disassemble your gas meters as well as your electrical outlets and expect you to clean up when they’re done.
 
IanO said:
^referencing other cities...

Zero respect out there for private and public property.

Sorry to hear/see Ken.
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appreciate the sympathy IanO...

ffs who in their right mind vandalizes high pressure gas meters?

and not just ours, our next door neighbour’s as well. and according to the atco crew they’re being called out - and often - to every ward in the city.
 
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