[Darkstar416]

None of the TTC commissioners I've spoken to have ever heard of the DRL. My all-streetcars-all-the-time talk isn't just totally crazy ranting! I have been told by TTC commissioners that all future expansions in the downtown area will be streetcars with right-of-way projects using St. Clair as the model.

Although, our same city has also discounted the possibility of ROW's on King, Queen, Dundas, College, Bathurst & Broadview. Therefore, I guess transit will never be expanded downtown. :\

 

[unimaginative2]

Well, they're still aiming for that ROW plan on King with a one-way road alternating each block. But yes, basically, you're right. I think their goal is the extension of the Exhibition streetcar west to Roncesvalles, to create the all-ROW route into downtown. It's definitely a poor substitute for a subway.

 

[roch5220]

I personally would point out the benefits of not only spuring development in the east part of downtown, but also the benefits of future expansions to the north. Being able to connect future extensions to hit eglington, and possible sheppard, would provide a ring like service in the north, and spur already entifisifed densification of don mills rd, and that egg/don mills area that is prime for even more development.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Also, why would the DRL be needed for the NW part of the city."

The Bloor line west of St. George is just as busy as the Yonge line north of Bloor. Given MT's growth, especially, the Bloor line could easily become overcrowded...a NW line intercepts all the bus routes coming from the north.

Really, there's all kinds of possible NW and NE alignments...don't overwhelm Miller describing every option. It'll be better to focus on the south of Bloor portion, maybe just noting the potential of the NW and NE (they'd almost certainly be later phases, anyway), since the part south of Bloor/Danforth is the critical part.

 

[borgos]

matt, when pitching this idea, you might want to emphasize the fact that the NW part of the City (Jane/Finch, Rexdale) already has the necessary density to support a DLR and has got to be one of the most under serviced parts of the City vis-à-vis public transit. Lastly, these areas are also the most disadvantaged. The City should be making it easier for the residents to use public transit to avail themselves of employment and educational opportunities. Why should only the upper middle class have the means to live close to the subway? Lastly, the Mayor is a genuinely good guy and will hear you out - but be well prepared for his questions. Good luck, this is a worthy endeavour.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

As someone stated in another thread (sorry can't find it now) there will come a time when the downtown area will come to a standstill and they'll be forced to build a subway. The Yonge subway after all was only built after Yonge Street became a nightmare. Too much development throughout the downtown area (portlands to Parkdale and north to Bloor) for this not to become a reality within our lifetimes.

 

[borgos]

Also, why would the DRL be needed for the NW part of the city. Last time I checked, there was no overcapcity issue with the University Spadina Line. Infact, a lot of the stations north of bloor seem to be way undercapacity.

I don't think you appreciate the traffic patterns there. Most people take the bus south to the B-D line - not east to the U-S line. Regarding density, why are we building a subway line to a parking lot in Vaughan? Jane/Finch or Rexdale makes much more sense.

 

[roch5220]

I'm not trying to get even more off topic but the VCC extension is a non issue as most here probably are in agreeance against it. Secondly, if your taking the bus from the NW part of the city, ie. Jane & Finch to the BD line, than thats your problem (crazedmonkey.com/toronto-transit-map/ you look at the comparative distances). I say 10K peak riders per hour along the finch bus route say otherwise. What my be needed is an east-west line say along Eglinton or Sheppard, but thats a different thread. To build another north-south stub to reach Jane & Finch after the north-south stub (north of bloor) Spadina/University line ridership numbers, then history is only going to repeat itself.

 

[roch5220]

matt, when pitching this idea, you might want to emphasize the fact that the NW part of the City (Jane/Finch, Rexdale) already has the necessary density to support a DLR and has got to be one of the most under serviced parts of the City vis-à-vis public transit.

First off, based upon what ridership numbers? Last report I saw shoed the Finch area being able to upgrade to LRT, but it was far from subway.

Also, why would the DRL be needed for the NW part of the city. Last time I checked, there was no overcapcity issue with the University Spadina Line. Infact, a lot of the stations north of bloor seem to be way undercapacity.

Hence, I wouldn't use this as support for the DRL (especially when the eastern extensions look to go into etobicoke, and not swing up to the Jane/Finch area).

 

[spmarshall]

I would also try to figure out the potential ridership by finding out the service levels/ridership of those routes that would be intercepted by the DRL. Station ridership would be useful as well, and it's all easy to get (except that they don't break down ridership by route portion)

The routes on the east include 501/502/503, 506, 72, 143 plus the ones that dump into Don Mills - 25, 81. Also, if you can, determine the "lost ridership" from those fustrated by the slow Queen route.

The east side (though not the Beaches) seem to be a bit less NIMBY/establishment than say North Toronto or High Park even. Lots of potential for growth here, and would help somewhat make the east waterfront more accessible, especially from the north and northeast.

Good luck! I think reviving this idea would generate excitement, especially with east-enders. With TTC ridership expected to reach near-1987 levels this year (when the DRL idea was in its prime), it's becoming a necessity.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Oh, and if the YUS loop is relieved, there's no reson why the Yonge line shouldn't be extended north of Finch...that extension would be a slam dunk.

 

[borgos]

One more thing Matt, a DLR extending to the NW part of the City could accomplish something else: it could make a Regent Park-like redevelopment of public housing projects financially feasible. At present, there would be no private interests who'd be prepared to put in mixed income housing there. Time to think big.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The "relief" is the portion south of Bloor/Danforth, not the Don Mills line. Don Mills and Weston branches are really just the icing on the cake, Don Mills being the more natural/obvious of the two.

 

[socialwoe]

I've pitched it to a TTC commissioner for whom I used to work, but he dismissed the idea, saying that streetcars were the way of the future for the downtown area.

:lol . He's kidding right? I'm all for this believe it or not, however I only wish Queen Street was getting some of this attention, talk about missed oppurtunity there.

Oh, and if the YUS loop is relieved, there's no reson why the Yonge line shouldn't be extended north of Finch...that extension would be a slam dunk.

That's the most obvious and well deserved extension, and it'd cost only 333, 000, 000 to complete. Another short distance extension that could be accomplished is BD to Sherway.

The "relief" is the portion south of Bloor/Danforth, not the Don Mills line. Don Mills and Weston branches are really just the icing on the cake, Don Mills being the more natural/obvious of the two.

BRT needs to be examined more first though. If DRL stops at Cherry St anyway what's to stop express buses running from here up the Don Valley hitting Don Mills @Overlea and northwards? This option may in fact be faster and more reliable than a full subway connecting the two.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"I'm not trying to get even more off topic but the VCC extension is a non issue as most here probably are in agreeance against it."

That's exactly what makes it an issue...imagine if we spent the money on the DRL instead.