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Another year and a half for this to open?? WHY
The TTC project is the more complicated of the two, and is the one that is not as far along. They've only just cut the first opening at platform level, and need to do another one still. A year and a half to finish that project sounds about right for it.

They are not speaking to how long the Metrolinx project will take - which considering that most of the finishes in the tunnel are now done and the elevator is almost ready for testing should only be months away from completion at this point.

Dan
 
They've only just cut the first opening at platform level, and need to do another one still. A year and a half to finish that project sounds about right for it.
Jeez, I was fully expecting completion by EOY 2026, not 2027

What has to be done for the TTC project besides opening up a hole in the wall? How long of a tunnel to connect to the Metrolinx tunnel? Any utility relocations etc?
 
Jeez, I was fully expecting completion by EOY 2026, not 2027

What has to be done for the TTC project besides opening up a hole in the wall? How long of a tunnel to connect to the Metrolinx tunnel? Any utility relocations etc?
Well, what has already been done so far is:
- Cut through the floor on two different levels of the parking structure
- Build a support around those cuts
- Excavate vertically down to the subway tunnel
- Build a support frame around the future openings in the platform walls

So a lot of the hard stuff is already done. What still needs to be done, however, is:
- Cut through the second platform wall
- Frame and pour the stairways from the platform to the mezzanine
- Frame and pour the stairways from the mezzanine to the GO level
- Build new permanent walls around the mezzanine area
- backfill
- install utilities
- install finishes
- exterior hardscaping and restoration

They've made good progress, but there's still a lot of work to do.

Dan
 
Well, what has already been done so far is:
- Cut through the floor on two different levels of the parking structure
- Build a support around those cuts
- Excavate vertically down to the subway tunnel
- Build a support frame around the future openings in the platform walls

So a lot of the hard stuff is already done. What still needs to be done, however, is:
- Cut through the second platform wall
- Frame and pour the stairways from the platform to the mezzanine
- Frame and pour the stairways from the mezzanine to the GO level
- Build new permanent walls around the mezzanine area
- backfill
- install utilities
- install finishes
- exterior hardscaping and restoration

They've made good progress, but there's still a lot of work to do.

Dan
Thanks for breaking down the phases. To a layman's eyes with no insight, on the surface it can easily look like yet another case of public works incompetence.
 
Well, what has already been done so far is:
- Cut through the floor on two different levels of the parking structure
- Build a support around those cuts
- Excavate vertically down to the subway tunnel
- Build a support frame around the future openings in the platform walls

So a lot of the hard stuff is already done. What still needs to be done, however, is:
- Cut through the second platform wall
- Frame and pour the stairways from the platform to the mezzanine
- Frame and pour the stairways from the mezzanine to the GO level
- Build new permanent walls around the mezzanine area
- backfill
- install utilities
- install finishes
- exterior hardscaping and restoration

They've made good progress, but there's still a lot of work to do.

Dan
we've seen entire stadiums get built in 3yrs - 1yr & half for what you said still sounds rediclous
 
we've seen entire stadiums get built in 3yrs - 1yr & half for what you said still sounds rediclous
When building an entire stadium, they usually don't have to keep the existing one operating inside of the new one, along with accesses to it and keeping everyone safe.

Building an expansion to an existing piece of infrastructure is always going to be harder if you want to keep the original one operating in the interim. It would be way, way easier - and way, way faster - if they could just shut down the subway and parking garage for 9 months, rip a huge hole in the earth and build up from the bottom like that. But would you like to deal with the shitstorm of not running the subway through there for 9 months? Or the residents who lose their parking for 9 months? I suspect that no one does - thus this project as it goes.

Dan
 
Well, what has already been done so far is:
- Cut through the floor on two different levels of the parking structure
- Build a support around those cuts
- Excavate vertically down to the subway tunnel
- Build a support frame around the future openings in the platform walls

There is certainly more there than many would account for..............yet, it is possible, even with the subway running to do these more quickly than they have been.

As is often the case, crew size, as well as number of shifts (total weekly hours) have a great deal to do with the pace.

Safety and noise considerations can be limiting........... but in general, public projects here lack a sense of urgency.

Let me use the below to attach what I think are very realistic timlines to each item, I'm intentionally taking what I feel the high end of the timeline should be:

So a lot of the hard stuff is already done. What still needs to be done, however, is:
- Cut through the second platform wall

1 week

- Frame and pour the stairways from the platform to the mezzanine

2 weeks (includes curing and polishing)

- Frame and pour the stairways from the mezzanine to the GO level

2 weeks

- Build new permanent walls around the mezzanine area

1 week

- backfill

1 week

- install utilities

1 week

- install finishes

2 weeks (includes deficiency correction)

- exterior hardscaping and restoration

1 week

That's 11 weeks all-in and would have the project open before Labour Day 2026.

Its predicated on 2 shifts per day, 6 days per week.

I'm not making those numbers up, they are industry standard estimates for commercial grade work, and in all cases I've rounded up to a full week or two weeks, where I would actually expect the same or less.

***

Of course, with a smaller crew.........and less than 1/2 the work hours, you could see total project time more than triple.
 
While I don't necessarily disagree with your other timelines (I might argue that they're a tad aggressive from what I've seen, but certainly not impossible), this one I do have a problem with.

- Frame and pour the stairways from the platform to the mezzanine
2 weeks (includes curing and polishing)
So yeah......no. A 40+ foot vertical flight of stars is going to take more than just a couple of weeks of framing. And to say nothing for the rest of the new tunnel enclosure for them. This is probably the single most involved part of the remaining part of the project, and there are two of them.

Of course, with a smaller crew.........and less than 1/2 the work hours, you could see total project time more than triple.
This is the real issue here. The TTC puts these things out to bid, and the contractors are coming back with their cheapest bids which include the absolute minimum amount of labour that they can get away with to do a job. (And in some cases, less than that.)

A larger crew will cost more money, absolutely. But with that crew being spread over a shorter amount of time, it will not be significantly higher and certainly not double.

And with the TTC being hamstrung financially, they kind of get forced into this minimum labour project situation.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see these projects done a lot more quickly. But until they are able to stop going to their political masters cap-in-hand for money to scrape by, this is going to continue being what we get.

Dan
 
While I don't necessarily disagree with your other timelines (I might argue that they're a tad aggressive from what I've seen, but certainly not impossible), this one I do have a problem with.

So yeah......no. A 40+ foot vertical flight of stars is going to take more than just a couple of weeks of framing. And to say nothing for the rest of the new tunnel enclosure for them. This is probably the single most involved part of the remaining part of the project, and there are two of them.

I greatly respect your knowledge Dan, so rather than just guess........

I double checked (just now) with a trade that does these for commercial settings, I was told I was being a bit aggressive, but not much, providing the spec was epoxy Terrazzo, rather than cement (I was told epoxy is now the norm)

For 40ft, I was told best case was as little as 11 working days (based on my proposed six-day work plan, 2 weeks) (per stair) but they said it could be up to 20 working days. They could do all the forming in 5 days flat, worst case.

Most of the time was curing time.

But they noted that cement Terrazzo would take much longer to cure.

They noted that had completed a job at the lower end of the time range in the last year. * not for the TTC or Mx

I think we may be differing a bit in how many things can be done in parallel if you have enough crew on site. My assumption is 72 working hours per week (minus break times)

****

Needless to say, I agree with what you're saying about how the TTC is funded for cap-x and that no one in the pubic sector is writing tenders to impose the kind of work schedule and expectations I would (but they should).

I've seen it done in private contracts with escalator replacements running at more than double the speed the TTC achieves, because client wants the finished product back ASAP. Its just a different mentality. Partly informed by better funding, but its also a different style of project management.
 
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Looking through the April 2025 TTC report, it was the Dundas West second entrance was targeted for 2026. College is on schedule though!

LOL It was supposed to be done by EOY 2026, they said 1 year ago. It's now supposed to be EOY 2027. By that logic, come spring 2027, they will be predicting EOY 2028...
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