[Esch]

Check out the 5 Clark loop on Glen Shields in York Region, which has 12 minute rush hour frequency. Or the western loop of 1 Queen in Brampton, which has a 10 minute frequency ALL day. Or the Ogden Ave section of 5 Dixie in Mississauga, which has 9 minute rush hour frequency in BOTH directions....

Thanks for this comment. This is one piece of information I received from one of our neighbours and was not yet able to verify personally. We'll have to look into this if we want to present this as part of our arguments. What I am concerned about in particular is the width of the streets relative to the bus and the little distance that exists between the curb and the houses.

I was able to look at the Ogden Ave reference you brought in Mississauga. The lucky thing going for the Ogden residents is that their street is straight like an arrow. The Audley Road South loop in Ajax is essentially a very narrow U shape with three 90 degree turns.

 

[RedRocket191]

@ Esch

Fortunately, Metrolinx is arranging for municipalities to purchase 30 foot buses at a discount (with the province essentially picking up the difference). Durham will have access to this program, so its a matter of them opting in. They already have one, but it's used on the flag bus routes. And, there would be plenty of routes that would benefit from using smaller buses.

Speed can be addressed by lowering the speed limit on the road. If the streets are as narrow as you say, then 60 km/h probably isn't a good idea, especially if 60 km/h is the speed limit on major arteries in the City of Toronto. The delays of a bus running 40 km/h vs 60 km/h on a short stretch would be negligible.

Noise is going to be very difficult to deal with, as its so subjective and very difficult to abate, but this might be a good place to test fuel cell buses (depending on how BC's evaluation of the technology goes). But, at least two of the issues can be dealt without having to reroute the service.

 

[doady]

Speed of the buses causing danger - Some commentators around here like to trivialize this problem. Well, this is what is called, I believe, the convenience of being out of range. It is not their kids biking in the street when these monsters charge like a boar at 60 km/h in our narrow streets.

Buses travel no faster than cars. In fact, some might say they are substantially slower...

On the narrow and winding suburban side streets, it would be difficult to reach a speed pf 60 km/h. Even on the wider, straighter major arterials, buses often do not reach 60 km/h, because they constantly have to stop to pick up and unload passengers and also obey traffic lights and deal with traffic congestion. Really, there is no proof that a bus poses more of safety hazard than a car does. And I very rarely ever see a bus driver go over the speed limit, given the oppurtunity.

So what you are implying is that bus drivers are lousy drivers. They do not drive as well as the average motorist. They are reckless and irresponsible. They have no morals and ethics. They do not care about the safety of their passengers or that of the people on the road. They do not care about the children. Is this all true? Are bus drivers really like that?

 

[Esch]

...Metrolinx is arranging for municipalities to purchase 30 foot buses at a discount...

Commerce always has its way.

Speed can be addressed by lowering the speed limit...

The speed limit IS 40 km/h. Still...

Noise is going to be very difficult to deal with, as its so subjective and very difficult to abate, but this might be a good place to test fuel cell buses...

The noise level has been measured by officials to be above the allowed limit set by the bylaw. Yes, fuel cell might be a longer-term solution.

 

[Esch]

So what you are implying is that bus drivers are lousy drivers. They do not drive as well as the average motorist. They are reckless and irresponsible. They have no morals and ethics. They do not care about the safety of their passengers or that of the people on the road. They do not care about the children. Is this all true? Are bus drivers really like that?

A lot of conclusion from a simple statement of the buses running at 60 km/h in a 40km/h street!

No, I did not say or mean any of what you imply. What I am saying is that buses (not all and not always) do run our streets at dangerous speed. Cars and bikes do that too (not all and not always). However, I don't really want to personally test the difference of being hit by a speeding bike vs. a speeding 10-ton (I do not have exact figures but may not be too far off the mark) bus.

 

[ITcomputer]

maybe we should hold one of these on her street:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh7fQz4xzW4

 

[urbanfan89]

Those will be very useful on suburban and rural routes:

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Sadly, those things are often even louder than a bus.

 

[cacruden]

Buses travel no faster than cars. In fact, some might say they are substantially slower...

Yes and No, In Kingston Township there was one bus route (one street over) that was fairly badly designed - and any slow traffic would put the bus behind schedule - and there was no slack at all -- The bus would usually use the clear residential streets as an opportunity to pick up time and get back on schedule (above posted rate of speed). But if speeding is a problem, I still recommend putting in massive speed bumps - which makes sure any vehicle slows down (cars and buses).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes and No, In Kingston Township there was one bus route (one street over) that was fairly badly designed - and any slow traffic would put the bus behind schedule - and there was no slack at all -- The bus would usually use the clear residential streets as an opportunity to pick up time and get back on schedule (above posted rate of speed). But if speeding is a problem, I still recommend putting in massive speed bumps - which makes sure any vehicle slows down (cars and buses).

The problem with the speed bumps, or any stop sign (or bus stop), is that the vehicle has use the lower gears until it speeds up to shift into a higher gear. With the lower gears, there is more noise from the engine. It will be noisy until the vehicle is able to shift up. It will be quieter with a higher gear, but how long a vehicle will be in the higher gear?

 

[Whoaccio]

The future of suburban bus transit, today!

 

[adma]

 

[Bus Hating B---h]

Half Truths

A lot of conclusion from a simple statement of the buses running at 60 km/h in a 40km/h street!

No, I did not say or mean any of what you imply. What I am saying is that buses (not all and not always) do run our streets at dangerous speed. Cars and bikes do that too (not all and not always). However, I don't really want to personally test the difference of being hit by a speeding bike vs. a speeding 10-ton (I do not have exact figures but may not be too far off the mark) bus.

This is in response to ESCH who, I suspect is a professional writer hired by the Cassidy’s for a handsome fee to spin this situation with lies and half truths to try and do some damage control. ESCH has posted this exact same post (August 14, 2008 @ 11:05 pm) in more than a dozen forums around the GTA. Notice how ESCH registered on this forum the day after the Sandra Cassidy story broke in the Toronto Star?

Here are the facts:
I live in this neighbourhood. Many of the 70+ signatures were collected under coercion. The 70 signatures were not 70 households, so with an average of 5 per households, the petition represents around 14 households in a subdivision of around 1,000 households. That is just around 1% of all the households. Try walking 400 meters through howling winds and mostly black ice in this particular neighbourhood and you will change your tune before one can say “Defend the elite against the common folk”. If this route that is performing better than most routes in Ajax is re-routed then all the routes not performing as well as this route should also be cancelled or rerouted. Most of the people that signed the petition are now, conveniently, washing their hands off their dirty deed. Sandra’s willing and able second in command “Barb” told the reporter that she was acting merely as a messenger for Sandra, who is the driving force behind this initiative.

As for the accusations that the bus goes too fast, I live on Audley Road and I have personally seen Sandra Cassidy go twice as fast as any of the Transit Buses when she is driving her Mercedes SUV or her Mercedes Sports Car.

 

[Bus Hating B---h]

You are probably right about that.

There are a few unfortunate sentences in the article quoted from Mrs. Cassidy. I was not present at the interview but knowing her, I believe the message she would have wanted to convey with the "more [influence]" reference was that even this way they have not been able to get the Transit corporation to alter the route so far. And yes, this is speculation at this point.

Now this is where I'll stop attempting to explain whatever she may or may not have wanted to say.

All the best!

This is such an incredibly silly matter that under normal circumstances, the DRT Executive Committee would have thrown this petition out. However Sandra Cassidy's influence is obvious in the fact that, despite the recommendations from their own staff to keep the route intact, the Executive Committee actually asked for more information, presumably, to see if the new information could unearth some fuel that would aid them in helping out their good friend Sandra. Now that the Toronto Star has done a magnificent expose of the situation, and the Ajax News Advertiser has finally followed suit (after ignoring this issue for months now, as a favour to their friends, the Cassidy's) and that Sandra has gone public with the obvious influence she has with the DRT Executive Committee, it will make the Executive Committee Members think twice on September 3rd, before they try to side with their friend Sandra, over the common folk who elected them. Under these circumstances, any Executive Committee Member that does side with the elitists will be crucified by the press and if they do so anyway, it will only reflect the extent of the influence that the Cassidy's have over them.

 

[Mustapha]

Thanks for this comment. This is one piece of information I received from one of our neighbours and was not yet able to verify personally. We'll have to look into this if we want to present this as part of our arguments. What I am concerned about in particular is the width of the streets relative to the bus and the little distance that exists between the curb and the houses.

I was able to look at the Ogden Ave reference you brought in Mississauga. The lucky thing going for the Ogden residents is that their street is straight like an arrow. The Audley Road South loop in Ajax is essentially a very narrow U shape with three 90 degree turns.

So cogent, so articulate, so wordy, and such a waste of my time to read your self-interested reasoning. The buses on Davisville and Ossington in Toronto run by peoples open windows. At the end of the day; this bus service is for the teenagers and workers marooned in Ajax without a car. Enjoy your bit of blue collar lakeside paradise.