Well, if you can't "claim any facts", don't make the accusation.
How would you like people publicly accusing you of shady deals without having any facts to back up their assertion?
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Well, if you can't "claim any facts", don't make the accusation.
How would you like people publicly accusing you of shady deals without having any facts to back up their assertion?
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Automation Gallery
Superstar
All you Miller and company worshipers will say this is all bullshit Anyways from todays paper.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2008/08/17/6478246-sun.html.
Let me repeat: do not make accusations you cannot back up. It does not matter whether I am or am not a Miller worshipper. Do you not understand what libel is?
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
AG:
Is it traditional for you to start your postings with an insult after having been proven to have gotten your details wrong? It's about as intellectually vigorous and original as calling someone "Socialist" or "Liberal".
As to the article from the Sun - if you follow the various waterfront threads on here, you'd know most if not all of the points noted. It's nothing new or earth-shattering- still nice to read it however.
AoD
Is it traditional for you to start your postings with an insult after having been proven to have gotten your details wrong? It's about as intellectually vigorous and original as calling someone "Socialist" or "Liberal".
As to the article from the Sun - if you follow the various waterfront threads on here, you'd know most if not all of the points noted. It's nothing new or earth-shattering- still nice to read it however.
AoD
alklay
Senior Member
A bad deal yes. A shady deal? That article certainly contained no evidence of such, let alone even suggested a shady deal.
So where is the evidence again Automation?
So where is the evidence again Automation?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
In fact, the motion to withold funding for Corus was moved by Miller in a special WT board meeting last December I believe.
AoD
AoD
Hypnotoad
Senior Member
I've tried to avoid the discussion about shady deals and what have you. But the article in the Sun is nothing new but offers yet another retold narrative at why the waterfront is everyone's favourite punching bag.
Are there missed opportunity and wasted apects of the waterfront? Yes. No one is denying that. But there is reason for optomism and that's why I take issue with the final quote in that Sun article:
Nothing to do? Living, working and playing are pretty the definitions of something to do. I find it lazy when critics fail to see that the plan for this area is to invite people to want to be there and stay there. Is there anything to do on Queen St W? Is there anything to do in Little Italy or the Danforth or even St. Lawrence? Not by the author's standards. It is doubtful that the Waterfront will recreate the organic aspect of other other neighbourhoods but it could and probably will become a geniune neighbourhood. And there will be stuff to do and the neighbourhood as a whole, and not one individual attraction, will be the magnet.
Are there missed opportunity and wasted apects of the waterfront? Yes. No one is denying that. But there is reason for optomism and that's why I take issue with the final quote in that Sun article:
Nothing to do? Living, working and playing are pretty the definitions of something to do. I find it lazy when critics fail to see that the plan for this area is to invite people to want to be there and stay there. Is there anything to do on Queen St W? Is there anything to do in Little Italy or the Danforth or even St. Lawrence? Not by the author's standards. It is doubtful that the Waterfront will recreate the organic aspect of other other neighbourhoods but it could and probably will become a geniune neighbourhood. And there will be stuff to do and the neighbourhood as a whole, and not one individual attraction, will be the magnet.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
A little research on Eric Kuhne produces this article, from the Sun:
Making neighbourhoods work
If you plan them properly with lots of local activities and commerce, Torontonians will come
By Rob Granatstein
For decades, one of Toronto's greatest strengths has been that it is a city of neighbourhoods.
Riverdale, Rosedale, Parkdale, Chinatown, the Beach, Roncesvalles Village, Yorkville, Leaside, Kensington Market, Little Italy, St. Clair West and Bloor West are just some of the city's wonderful local communities.
Take that further afield, and you find terrific, quaint stretches in the suburban hinterland as well. Downtown Oakville is a jewel, with a main strip so busy its merchants are demanding construction of a parking garage. Old Whitby has a terrific main street, so does historic Unionville.
What ties all these places together? It's their main streets. Narrow roads with street parking on both sides. It creates a welcoming atmosphere. (Except for the oppressive parking enforcement.)
Throw in coffee shops, restaurants and patios, and you have a place you don't just race in and out of, but one where you linger. Where people walk their dogs and sit on benches and shoot the breeze.
Above the stores are often offices or residences, bringing more people to the street all the time, creating activity and energy.
When you travel along Kingston Rd. in Scarborough or into Mississauga, Richmond Hill and Markham, that's what's missing. Narrow roads are replaced with huge boulevards surrounded by parking lots, with big box retail outlets or stores set way back from the street. Towering condos with nothing around them and underground parking lots, sending people straight out onto the highway without ever making human contact. It's sterile living.
"The unexpected encounter -- where you bump into someone you know -- that's what's great about cities and neighbourhoods," Eric Kuhne, one of the world's most highly-regarded architects and city planners, told a recent TEDCO symposium centred on generating wealth through infrastructure.
This issue will continue to grow in importance as our population continues to age.
Where planners used to want key resources -- drug stores, butchers, banks, produce stores, schools -- less than a kilometre from people, that will shrink as our hips get creakier, our knees are up for replacement and we don't have the same wind we used to.
"Why are people driving? It hurts to walk," Kuhne said.
People used to live to 50, now they're living to 80 and beyond, and many aren't behind the wheel anymore.
"Now people are asking for everything to be within 250 metres of 85% of people," said Kuhne, whose London, England-based practice has clients worldwide.
'Main St. U.S.A.'
John Norquist, the former mayor of Milwaukee and an expert on urban planning, said since World War II, "Main St. U.S.A." -- a two-rod or 33-foot-wide road, that has stores with sidewalks at ground level and residential or office space above it -- has only been built in two places: Disneyland and Disney World.
"I think most people who move to the suburbs don't want to live in an automobile junk zone," Norquist said. "When they see suburbia that's well put together, they like it."
A Norquist-type city, where the roads are narrow, there is retail at ground level and office or residential space above, will be the only way to build as we look to cut down our carbon footprints in the future. It already works in New York City where a Manhattanite uses 25% of the energy of an average American.
Plus, narrow and cozy works.
Norquist showed a photo of a busy intersection in Wicker Park in Chicago -- another city known for its neighbourhoods. The streets are one lane each way with parking on both sides 24 hours a day. There's retail on the street, offices above, and the merchants rule the roost. Traffic is busy but not gridlocked.
All of this is instructive as Toronto is building its future at a hectic pace.
Emery Village in the northwest part of the city, Regent Park and Don Mount downtown, along with the new waterfront neighbourhoods -- all either well underway or in the final planning stages -- have taken these lessons to heart.
The real problem will be along the waterfront in the East Bayfront. Already, everyone is trying to get their piece. Bike lanes, transit lanes, traffic lanes, street parking, and trees are all being pitched as must- haves. Drivers and cyclists better be prepared to be booted to the curb. The main drag should be one lane, each way, with cyclists finding a spot off the road.
The waterfront needs to have a great feel or it will be dead before it starts.
rob.granatstein@sunmedia.ca
http://torontosun.ca/News/Columnists/Granatstein_Rob/2007/06/19/pf-4272130.html
____________________________________
Interesting coincidence, given the historical head butting betwewen Jack Diamond/TEDCO and WT/Kim Koetter...
AoD
Making neighbourhoods work
If you plan them properly with lots of local activities and commerce, Torontonians will come
By Rob Granatstein
For decades, one of Toronto's greatest strengths has been that it is a city of neighbourhoods.
Riverdale, Rosedale, Parkdale, Chinatown, the Beach, Roncesvalles Village, Yorkville, Leaside, Kensington Market, Little Italy, St. Clair West and Bloor West are just some of the city's wonderful local communities.
Take that further afield, and you find terrific, quaint stretches in the suburban hinterland as well. Downtown Oakville is a jewel, with a main strip so busy its merchants are demanding construction of a parking garage. Old Whitby has a terrific main street, so does historic Unionville.
What ties all these places together? It's their main streets. Narrow roads with street parking on both sides. It creates a welcoming atmosphere. (Except for the oppressive parking enforcement.)
Throw in coffee shops, restaurants and patios, and you have a place you don't just race in and out of, but one where you linger. Where people walk their dogs and sit on benches and shoot the breeze.
Above the stores are often offices or residences, bringing more people to the street all the time, creating activity and energy.
When you travel along Kingston Rd. in Scarborough or into Mississauga, Richmond Hill and Markham, that's what's missing. Narrow roads are replaced with huge boulevards surrounded by parking lots, with big box retail outlets or stores set way back from the street. Towering condos with nothing around them and underground parking lots, sending people straight out onto the highway without ever making human contact. It's sterile living.
"The unexpected encounter -- where you bump into someone you know -- that's what's great about cities and neighbourhoods," Eric Kuhne, one of the world's most highly-regarded architects and city planners, told a recent TEDCO symposium centred on generating wealth through infrastructure.
This issue will continue to grow in importance as our population continues to age.
Where planners used to want key resources -- drug stores, butchers, banks, produce stores, schools -- less than a kilometre from people, that will shrink as our hips get creakier, our knees are up for replacement and we don't have the same wind we used to.
"Why are people driving? It hurts to walk," Kuhne said.
People used to live to 50, now they're living to 80 and beyond, and many aren't behind the wheel anymore.
"Now people are asking for everything to be within 250 metres of 85% of people," said Kuhne, whose London, England-based practice has clients worldwide.
'Main St. U.S.A.'
John Norquist, the former mayor of Milwaukee and an expert on urban planning, said since World War II, "Main St. U.S.A." -- a two-rod or 33-foot-wide road, that has stores with sidewalks at ground level and residential or office space above it -- has only been built in two places: Disneyland and Disney World.
"I think most people who move to the suburbs don't want to live in an automobile junk zone," Norquist said. "When they see suburbia that's well put together, they like it."
A Norquist-type city, where the roads are narrow, there is retail at ground level and office or residential space above, will be the only way to build as we look to cut down our carbon footprints in the future. It already works in New York City where a Manhattanite uses 25% of the energy of an average American.
Plus, narrow and cozy works.
Norquist showed a photo of a busy intersection in Wicker Park in Chicago -- another city known for its neighbourhoods. The streets are one lane each way with parking on both sides 24 hours a day. There's retail on the street, offices above, and the merchants rule the roost. Traffic is busy but not gridlocked.
All of this is instructive as Toronto is building its future at a hectic pace.
Emery Village in the northwest part of the city, Regent Park and Don Mount downtown, along with the new waterfront neighbourhoods -- all either well underway or in the final planning stages -- have taken these lessons to heart.
The real problem will be along the waterfront in the East Bayfront. Already, everyone is trying to get their piece. Bike lanes, transit lanes, traffic lanes, street parking, and trees are all being pitched as must- haves. Drivers and cyclists better be prepared to be booted to the curb. The main drag should be one lane, each way, with cyclists finding a spot off the road.
The waterfront needs to have a great feel or it will be dead before it starts.
rob.granatstein@sunmedia.ca
http://torontosun.ca/News/Columnists/Granatstein_Rob/2007/06/19/pf-4272130.html
____________________________________
Interesting coincidence, given the historical head butting betwewen Jack Diamond/TEDCO and WT/Kim Koetter...
AoD
Hypnotoad
Senior Member
How can the same expert dismiss the waterfront for having no attractions in one interview but praise the intimacy and attractiveness of an urban neighbourhood in another? Selective SUN reporting I guess.
I'm also perplexed by the second article's assertion that cyclists will be given the boot. I'm an avid cyclist and the idea of moving off the road onto a path at the waterfront is the best news. Why must the SUN try so hard to sustain the commentary that the waterfront is doomed?
I'm also perplexed by the second article's assertion that cyclists will be given the boot. I'm an avid cyclist and the idea of moving off the road onto a path at the waterfront is the best news. Why must the SUN try so hard to sustain the commentary that the waterfront is doomed?
DSC
Superstar
This week a new wooden construction fence is going up along the south side of Queen's Quay running east from the Corus site. (The cycle path is closed.)
Also, the first (of two) of the inflatable tennis courts has gone in the last few days and today they are starting to take up the rail lines that go to the Redpath Sugar refinery. We were promised that the Sugar Beach and Sherbourne Park would start this fall, I guess this is proof that at least the Sherbourne Park is.
Also, the first (of two) of the inflatable tennis courts has gone in the last few days and today they are starting to take up the rail lines that go to the Redpath Sugar refinery. We were promised that the Sugar Beach and Sherbourne Park would start this fall, I guess this is proof that at least the Sherbourne Park is.
grey
Senior Member
Just doing their part to support the Conservative party, I suppose. The waterfront is home to perhaps the two most prominent NDP members of parliament who have contributed to the waterfront revitalization.
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
Well, that is the sun, hardly more than a formalized tabloid.
ahmedyusali
Member
nice video presentation for east bayfront, just click on east bayfront animation bar at top right.
http://buildeastbayfront.com/index.aspx
http://buildeastbayfront.com/index.aspx
grey
Senior Member
^^^ That was discussed on the first two pages.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
There is lots of hope for this area.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...love-for-the-eastern-downtown-waterfront.aspx
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...love-for-the-eastern-downtown-waterfront.aspx