[MattPT]

More to it than money. I see it more as an investment in socioeconomic research. It would be a failure of the original intention to focus solely on money spent.
Quickly built but shitty tax generating neighbourhood short term vs creating a showpiece of good design, destination neighbourhood.

Edmonton is literally one giant ugly quickly built money generating big box monstrosity. Other than whyte ave, the river valley, and our tourist specific attractions, there is nowhere in Edmonton that you can be proud to bring an out of town tourist.

what is that saying? “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

 

[David A]

If something sub standard is built, just because someone is in a rush to monetize the property, you can't just tear it down and start over again in a few years. We will be stuck with it for a long time.

There is no do over and there is no other Blatchford site to develop if we mess this one up. Proceed carefully.

 

[roe_]

To play devil's advocate...

The purpose of getting is done quickly is
1) Extract the value out of the raw land (plus profit of development) back into the City's pocket
2) Accelerate creating a massive property tax base that will pay large amounts of taxes to the City (in perpetuity) without requiring the same level of infrastructure investments and new ongoing operating costs as greenfield development

It doesn't matter where in Edmonton you live, those are two very good things for every citizen. It provides much needed revenue for whatever your flavor is: lower property taxes, infrastructure investments to unlock more core redevelopment, higher levels of service for core services, investment capital in green energy, etc, etc.

Sure, those are good things if the only goal is quick development. But Edmonton is an expert at quick development, which often leads to ugly and unsustainable neighbourhoods. I know there are many people here that don't support the City getting involved in property development, but if it was left entirely to the private sector we would end up the same types of development we've seen for the last 60 years and that, IMHO, isn't a good thing for the city either.

 

[Avenuer]

Sure, those are good things if the only goal is quick development. But Edmonton is an expert at quick development, which often leads to ugly and unsustainable neighbourhoods. I know there are many people here that don't support the City getting involved in property development, but if it was left entirely to the private sector we would end up the same types of development we've seen for the last 60 years and that, IMHO, isn't a good thing for the city either.

Agreed. The only non-city low to medium density residential development that is higher quality than most of the same stuff that's been constructed over the last 50 years is Griesbach (unless I'm missing something?), but even then Canada Lands Company is a Federal Crown corporation, so even there government is involved.

 

[northlands]

If something sub standard is built, just because someone is in a rush to monetize the property, you can't just tear it down and start over again in a few years. We will be stuck with it for a long time.

There is no do over and there is no other Blatchford site to develop if we mess this one up. Proceed carefully.

Yup, I'm not overly impressed with the speed of development but the quality does look like it is there. Timing of this development is obviously key for its success, but as others noted there is no do over when it's done for decades, so may as well do it right the first time.

 

[strata]

Sure, those are good things if the only goal is quick development. But Edmonton is an expert at quick development, which often leads to ugly and unsustainable neighbourhoods. I know there are many people here that don't support the City getting involved in property development, but if it was left entirely to the private sector we would end up the same types of development we've seen for the last 60 years and that, IMHO, isn't a good thing for the city either.

Not sure I understand the root of this comment.

I was not suggesting changing the goals of Blatchford, merely making an observation that if the execution could be done in a quicker fashion, the entire City would benefit from it.

This is the City's land. They can set whatever policy and development plan they see fit, and enforce anyone carrying out the development to follow that plan. If the private sector can execute the same plan quicker, the City would benefit because they could extract the value of the raw land immediately and deploy it in other infrastructure projects that are badly needed to kick-start other redevelopment projects (ie: Rossdale), and then see a quicker rise in property taxes being generated from the area, which feeds into the general tax base coffer.

And this idea that the private sector can't execute the vision is quite frankly a shitty take. Homebuilders like Mutti & Encore that are building in Blatchford also build cutter-cookie homes in suburb Edmonton, Fort Saskatchewan, Leduc, & St. Albert. But magically, when they build in Blatchford where there is specifically policy baked in...they build the housing product to match that policy. Why would a land developer be any different? Especially when they have the City approving individual zoning applications, subdivision applications, development agreements, to ensure what is promised is delivered every step of the way.

 

[EtoV]

We've gone over this already haven't we? At this point Blatchford is functionally private development. All the projects are being built by private developers, the only thing that is being done by the City is the infrastructure. Roads, servicing, power, parks etc. If the entire thing was being done by the private sector the only difference would be that instead of the City building that infrastructure beforehand and then selling the lots, that infrastructure would be negotiated for through the zoning and subdivision process, where the form of development including roads and parks would be required through the area plans, and would again likely have some negotiation involved.

The roads would still get built the same way, the servicing would still be there, the parks would still be there. But every point would be a battle. This developer doesn't think the roads should go here. That developer would like the park to be smaller. This developer wants to get rid of the mews to try and maximize developable land. That developer doesn't think building that infrastructure should be their responsibility. Going the fully private route would also give more opportunities for the developers to play hardball with the City to minimize the standards of development at each point of the negotiations. This way all those negotiated costs are baked into the price.

Speaking as someone who works in development planning, if anything this method speeds up application timelines as the infrastructure is already in place, reduces time wasted negotiating things, and limits the amount of points in the development process that the developer can cut corners and do the bare minimum. A simple subdivision with existing infrastructure, or in some cases just a development permit, is soooooo much quicker than going through the subdivision process where there isn't existing infrastructure.

The key is making sure the City is properly anticipating development so that the infrastructure is there when the demand is.

 

[Airboy]

The city set the standard for the buildings. The city is the utility. other than that and being the land developer everything else is private. As of yesterday there were 2 more foundations dug. and a couple of more to go in the next week or so.

 

[Edmonchuk]

Not sure I understand the root of this comment.

I was not suggesting changing the goals of Blatchford, merely making an observation that if the execution could be done in a quicker fashion, the entire City would benefit from it.

This is the City's land. They can set whatever policy and development plan they see fit, and enforce anyone carrying out the development to follow that plan. If the private sector can execute the same plan quicker, the City would benefit because they could extract the value of the raw land immediately and deploy it in other infrastructure projects that are badly needed to kick-start other redevelopment projects (ie: Rossdale), and then see a quicker rise in property taxes being generated from the area, which feeds into the general tax base coffer.

And this idea that the private sector can't execute the vision is quite frankly a shitty take. Homebuilders like Mutti & Encore that are building in Blatchford also build cutter-cookie homes in suburb Edmonton, Fort Saskatchewan, Leduc, & St. Albert. But magically, when they build in Blatchford where there is specifically policy baked in...they build the housing product to match that policy. Why would a land developer be any different? Especially when they have the City approving individual zoning applications, subdivision applications, development agreements, to ensure what is promised is delivered every step of the way.

I honestly don't understand what are you talking about? This city is NOT developing lots!

 

[Avenuer]

I honestly don't understand what are you talking about? This city is NOT developing lots!

But the City is - a portion of Laurel in the southeast has lots developed by the COE. In Blatchford, they are developing 'blocks', which they are selling to builders who construct townhomes and (in the future), apartment buildings.

 

[CplKlinger]

The city set the standard for the buildings. The city is the utility. other than that and being the land developer everything else is private. As of yesterday there were 2 more foundations dug. and a couple of more to go in the next week or so.

Is there any progress on the Carbon Busters site? They made some noise about breaking ground in the summer, but I haven't heard anything since then.

 

[Yossarian]

Is there any progress on the Carbon Busters site? They made some noise about breaking ground in the summer, but I haven't heard anything since then.

Nothing of significance since they did their big excavation. They're definitely poking along, especially compared to Mutti and Encore.

 

[Airboy]

Nothing of significance since they did their big excavation. They're definitely poking along, especially compared to Mutti and Encore.

Yup Encore is chugging along quite strongly. About to start some more.

 

[JNO1]

I hope they can do something cool with the old control tower. Boutique hotel? Student housing? A series of funky cafes and restaurants (one per floor)? Other ideas? Anyone?

 

[itom987]

Add another 100 floors to it, make it our CN Tower!

Just kidding...