What do you think of this project?

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CaptainBL said:
This development had so much more potential with what was promised compared to what has been executed so far. Sure, you can say exogenous factors such as economics or partners (Cineplex) have affected this but if the end goal is still to attract people to the "entertainment" aspect, I am no more willing to visit the district to go to a TD, Starbucks, or whatever basic, non-unique retail than I was to go to the area before. If the vision was executed and there were unique factors such as something similar to a Top Golf, a bowling alley or anything entertaining that the comparables we were sold on like LA Live have then maybe we could sit back and say "wow, this has turned out quite well". But it is completely ok to say that hasn't happened and we expect more, because quite frankly we did.

For those of you that are Oilers fans, or sports fans in general, when the Oilers finished 30th year over year while being promised a playoff contending team, a 28th place finish the next year while being an improvement was still unacceptable to fans. In the perspective of Edmonton developments, we've had 30th place developments for much longer than deserved. While the ice district is certainly a step up from our 30th place developments, it misses the playoffs again in my opinion and we have every right to expect the type of quality developments seen in Toronto, Montreal, Calgary or Vancouver. Ironically, both the Oilers and the development promises have come from the same individual...but that's for another day.
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Definitely agree with you on the potential part. The first sign that the whole ICE District would not live up to the promise is the deviation from the original renders of Stantec. While the building looks "alright" , it is far off from the original design. Compared to the original, the current design has a cost cutting look to it. That building should of been a showpiece for our downtown. Then there's the constant delays and modifications to the Block BG podium and the BG "phantom tower" design. The Katz/One group did do well with the City Tower, JW and Roger's Place though. Those developments spawned a lot of other developments in downtown. I am grateful for that.
We need a very aggressive pro-business municipal government to get our city to another level and I don't mean for the progression to take decades either. We also need better oversight in architectural design. Let the Milner Library be the last blunder in our core.
This city is screaming potential and there needs to be believers out there to make it happen.
 
cpnfantstk said:
We need a very aggressive pro-business municipal government to get our city to another level and I don't mean for the progression to take decades either. We also need better oversight in architectural design. Let the Milner Library be the last blunder in our core.
This city is screaming potential and there needs to be believers out there to make it happen.
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You nailed it here. I somewhat alluded to this on another thread (Self-admittedly semi-derailed that thread with this take) but Edmonton has so much potential that just does not seem to convert to anything tangible, or converts very very slowly with respect to the city's comparables. I work in corporate investment banking in Toronto and my role requires me to work with publicly traded corporations and their officers across the country. From my experience, Edmonton's corporate brand and exposure is not even in the conversation nationwide, never mind globally. I look at corporations and their projects specifically in the energy, power and utilities sector and Edmonton's corporate development in this area is very small to non existent in my knowledge. But when I put on my proud Edmontonian hat, it pains me to see the business progress, or lack of progress. And this theme is not just all about business, but with strong business development comes the multiplier effects of better more needed municipal services, demand for nicer buildings, or even more demand for things like bike paths. So yes, in my opinion we need an aggressive pro-business muni government, which we have not had in many years and unfortunately, I don't know of any contenders so far for the upcoming election that indicate otherwise, if we want to see some serious progress and development. As I am semi-derailing this thread again, I digress.
 
cpnfantstk said:
Definitely agree with you on the potential part. The first sign that the whole ICE District would not live up to the promise is the deviation from the original renders of Stantec. While the building looks "alright" , it is far off from the original design. Compared to the original, the current design has a cost cutting look to it. That building should of been a showpiece for our downtown. Then there's the constant delays and modifications to the Block BG podium and the BG "phantom tower" design. The Katz/One group did do well with the City Tower, JW and Roger's Place though. Those developments spawned a lot of other developments in downtown. I am grateful for that.
We need a very aggressive pro-business municipal government to get our city to another level and I don't mean for the progression to take decades either. We also need better oversight in architectural design. Let the Milner Library be the last blunder in our core.
This city is screaming potential and there needs to be believers out there to make it happen.
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Let it be known that 'pro-business' does not equal Mike Nickel.
 
Avenuer said:
Let it be known that 'pro-business' does not equal Mike Nickel.
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OK. I'll take your word for it ..lol.. @CaptainBL I'm a proud Edmontonian too that moved back after nearly 30 years. If it weren't for the developments of the past five years, the core would look nearly the same as it did back in 1993. Not Good Enough !!!! So let's all appreciate the BG podium ( <------ inserted to not derail 😄)
 
CaptainBL said:
You nailed it here. I somewhat alluded to this on another thread (Self-admittedly semi-derailed that thread with this take) but Edmonton has so much potential that just does not seem to convert to anything tangible, or converts very very slowly with respect to the city's comparables. I work in corporate investment banking in Toronto and my role requires me to work with publicly traded corporations and their officers across the country. From my experience, Edmonton's corporate brand and exposure is not even in the conversation nationwide, never mind globally. I look at corporations and their projects specifically in the energy, power and utilities sector and Edmonton's corporate development in this area is very small to non existent in my knowledge. But when I put on my proud Edmontonian hat, it pains me to see the business progress, or lack of progress. And this theme is not just all about business, but with strong business development comes the multiplier effects of better more needed municipal services, demand for nicer buildings, or even more demand for things like bike paths. So yes, in my opinion we need an aggressive pro-business muni government, which we have not had in many years and unfortunately, I don't know of any contenders so far for the upcoming election that indicate otherwise, if we want to see some serious progress and development. As I am semi-derailing this thread again, I digress.
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I think many of the more ambitious people in our business community leave, or are forced to leave, for other cities with more opportunities, so this becomes a self perpetuating problem. I don't think the problem is so much at the municipal government level, although I would agree there seems to be a malaise there currently. It is much, much bigger than that. If you are so passionate about our city and its progress, you probably need to find your way back here some how, eventually and be a part of the progress we need.
 
David A said:
I think many of the more ambitious people in our business community leave, or are forced to leave, for other cities with more opportunities, so this becomes a self perpetuating problem. I don't think the problem is so much at the municipal government level, although I would agree there seems to be a malaise there currently. It is much, much bigger than that. If you are so passionate about our city and its progress, you probably need to find your way back here some how, eventually and be a part of the progress we need.
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I find that too, back in my university days many many friends in both engineering and commerce left after graduation for better and more opportunities in Calgary. As long as there are better and more opportunities elsewhere, and those opportunities dont develop here, that perpetuating problem will continue. As is the case with me as well, the area I work in does not exist in Edmonton and will have no reason to exist in Edmonton for the foreseeable future. Otherwise I would love to come back to the city one day. My hope is that one day there will be more of a corporate presence in Edmonton and people such as myself will want to stay and stop the brain drain.
 
I'm not sure I agree with the general spirit of the last number of posts. As others have mentioned, I think the future of our downtown is residential - I simply don't think there is a path to us becoming a major corporate center at this point of our development. I don't really see this as a bad thing and frankly, I also don't think this is a major hurdle to us attracting and keeping talent. There will always be ambitious people looking for prestigious corporate opportunities, but those people will always dart off to the NYC's/London's/San Francisco's of the world. For most people (albeit not in every industry), there have been very, very few major metropolitan areas in North America where you have been able to make more money relative to the cost of living compared to Edmonton - Calgary pre-2015 was probably the highest, but we have generally been right near the top.

In my experience, far more people leave here for the lifestyle reasons rather than opportunity (at least compared to the cost of living). There are only a very few jobs/industries that pay better in Vancouver and yet people flock there constantly for the lifestyle, despite the cost of living. Of course some of this is climate, but it's also density, walkability, transit, vibrancy, etc.

In my opinion, the best (and only viable) path forward for Edmonton is to get serious about building an attractive, walkable, vibrant city that people can actually enjoy living in - much more of a 'build it and they will come' approach. In that sense, I give the current Council a lot of credit. The push for transit, park/green space development, finally getting serious about cycling infrastructure, implementing the new City Plan, undertaking the zoning bylaw review are all really important steps to building a better city.

In the same way, I am also deeply skeptical a more 'pro-business' council is likely to achieve better results.
 
rake said:
I'm not sure I agree with the general spirit of the last number of posts. As others have mentioned, I think the future of our downtown is residential - I simply don't think there is a path to us becoming a major corporate center at this point of our development. I don't really see this as a bad thing and frankly, I also don't think this is a major hurdle to us attracting and keeping talent. There will always be ambitious people looking for prestigious corporate opportunities, but those people will always dart off to the NYC's/London's/San Francisco's of the world. For most people (albeit not in every industry), there have been very, very few major metropolitan areas in North America where you have been able to make more money relative to the cost of living compared to Edmonton - Calgary pre-2015 was probably the highest, but we have generally been right near the top.

In my experience, far more people leave here for the lifestyle reasons rather than opportunity (at least compared to the cost of living). There are only a very few jobs/industries that pay better in Vancouver and yet people flock there constantly for the lifestyle, despite the cost of living. Of course some of this is climate, but it's also density, walkability, transit, vibrancy, etc.

In my opinion, the best (and only viable) path forward for Edmonton is to get serious about building an attractive, walkable, vibrant city that people can actually enjoy living in - much more of a 'build it and they will come' approach. In that sense, I give the current Council a lot of credit. The push for transit, park/green space development, finally getting serious about cycling infrastructure, implementing the new City Plan, undertaking the zoning bylaw review are all really important steps to building a better city.

In the same way, I am also deeply skeptical a more 'pro-business' council is likely to achieve better results.
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Edmonton will never be a Toronto of the west, or even as corporate as Calgary for that matter. But if you're referring to Vancouver, many people who live in downtown Van also work in downtown Van. We can build all the residential developments we want downtown, but are those residents taking transit to work in the industrial heartland? Or to the welding fab shops on the south side or in Nisku? Or to the new Amazon warehouse? If the city does follow through with the plan for an additional 1 million people, and many of those are to be in downtown or inner city infill developments, you need jobs for these people and they cant all be restaurant workers or electricians working in the oil and gas industry, as that industry will never return to what it once has. Can the city work with Microsoft to have the western Canadian office focused on security or AI? Can the city work with renewable power producers, chemicals companies or hydrogen companies looking to expand into the province to take advantage of the local gas industry? I agree we definitely need residential downtown, but if there isnt the jobs growth downtown as well, I fail to see these residents commuting all over the city. Its a chicken or the egg type riddle.
 
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