[CplKlinger]

That's the thing: people here, even basketball fans, barely know about the team. Playing at Rogers would help, sure, but maybe even having a few exhibition games against the NBA's training camp/development league teams would generate even more interest (which would be great for the Stingers and for the CEBL).
And I would love to see more stuff going on at Rogers when the oilers are not playing. We do need to remember, though, that music concerts are probably making a huge comeback next year, which will definitely boost the arena usage!

I know right? The same goes for soccer and baseball; this is a pretty one-trick city when it comes to sports. Exhibition games are a great idea. I think I recall that the Stingers won last year's championship? Yes, I just looked it up and they did. I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as big a deal as the Stanley Cup, but I'm sad that I haven't heard anyone bring it up in the past year. Hopefully our non-hockey professional teams are hanging in there with attendance, and things can pick up for them. So yes, I 100% agree that Rogers Place should be better utilized to support the Stingers, because we need to seriously raise awareness about our local championship team!

 

[ChazYEG]

My friends and I visited that mall last Saturday while looking for a bite to eat. The website said that some food places, like the A&W and Booster Juice, closed at 6:00 PM. When we got there at around 5:10, literally everything was already locked up. Including the food places, which the website said were open. There were some people still walking around, but there was nothing to see aside from locked rolling screens blocking all the stores and food places. Also, instead of there being a food court, it seemed like the food places were scattered around the 3ish storey mall. We had to wander for a solid 5-10 minutes just to find the Booster Juice closed. Suffice to say, I don't get how this could be a convenient place to visit for lunch or dinner. I guess some office workers might have their go-to for lunch, but given that the food venues are scattered who-knows where and the mall doesn't provide seating (there might be inside some of the fast food joints I guess?), it just seems like too much effort for the average tourist or visitor.

EXACTLY! You go to any downtown, ANYWHERE in the world, and I mean REALLY ANYWHERE, and you'll have at least a couple of McDonalds and Subways, maybe a BK, on street facing CRUs, usually around, or close, to tourist destinations. And it is regardless of how densely populated the place is.

And I've been through the same thing, when a friend came to visit, a few weeks ago, we went to sightsee around DT and as it got late, we either had to choose between going to somewhere a little more expensive, just to grab a pop and a quick bite, or interrupt the walk to go eat further away in Oliver Square or on that strip mall by Best Buy on 104ave/109 st, which would completely kill the rest of the day, since we were by the funicular when we decided that we wanted to stop a eat something quick.
An A&W, McDonalds, BK, KFC, Taco Bell, anything of the sorts, would have been enough. Only thing we found was a Subway, almost closing. Ended up cutting the walk short, went home to shower and then go have dinner at a restaurant. Would probably have gone to the restaurant anyways, but we could've been in DT for a while longer. She wanted to see and take pictures at Churchill Sq., AGA, RAM... none of which we ended up going to.

 

[ChazYEG]

I know right? The same goes for soccer and baseball; this is a pretty one-trick city when it comes to sports. Exhibition games are a great idea. I think I recall that the Stingers won last year's championship? Yes, I just looked it up and they did. I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as big a deal as the Stanley Cup, but I'm sad that I haven't heard anyone bring it up in the past year. Hopefully our non-hockey professional teams are hanging in there with attendance, and things can pick up for them. So yes, I 100% agree that Rogers Place should be better utilized to support the Stingers, because we need to seriously raise awareness about our local championship team!

Edmonton has one of the best sports infrastructure in the world (not just Canada!) and it is extremely underused. With the amount of Ukrainians, Russians, Latinos and Middle Easterners in Edmonton, soccer could very well become a MUCH more popular sport than it is here. Actually, I honestly believe there is space in the MLS, for example, to absorb some of the CPL teams (although I would very much prefer if we lured the Canadian teams out of the MLS and into the CPL and actually had a league of our own to play the international championships, like the CONCACAF Gold Cup).

But back to the Rogers arena and the Ice District, I think we should definitely look into pushing other sports to play in there, generate interest and maybe, just maybe, create a new following that would keep the place busier throughout the year. I get it that everyone loves hockey, but it is far from being the only sport worth watching.

 

[God]

Edmonton has one of the best sports infrastructure in the world (not just Canada!) and it is extremely underused. With the amount of Ukrainians, Russians, Latinos and Middle Easterners in Edmonton, soccer could very well become a MUCH more popular sport than it is here. Actually, I honestly believe there is space in the MLS, for example, to absorb some of the CPL teams (although I would very much prefer if we lured the Canadian teams out of the MLS and into the CPL and actually had a league of our own to play the international championships, like the CONCACAF Gold Cup).

But back to the Rogers arena and the Ice District, I think we should definitely look into pushing other sports to play in there, generate interest and maybe, just maybe, create a new following that would keep the place busier throughout the year. I get it that everyone loves hockey, but it is far from being the only sport worth watching.

I feel like there’s a big market for each of our sports teams. The city just doesn’t promote them as they should. I’ve seen people go to oilers games not being oilers fans but just going to check out the new arena. They’ve also realised they enjoy the sport and later on became fans and own some jerseys. Obviously the other teams just won’t be as big, but there’s definitely a lot of room for improvement.

 

[IanO]

Ian, and why would it not be a good fit for Downtown? Too suburban for you?

For crying out loud, we need these sort of things to stop people from thinking it's easier to live in the suburbs, since they have to do EVERYTHING there anyways. Hardware store? no fit for downtown! Ikea? same! Costco? NEVER!
Hell, our downtown core barely has fast food restaurants outside of a decaying mall (it might sound silly but they actually generate TONS of traffic). We need this sort of things! People go to these places and they spend money there, and they will regardless of location, but if there's one closer, they'll probably go there.

I'm not advocating for a humungous Ikea with a giant surface parking lot that takes 4 city blocks, for example. But a smaller scale store, like the have a few around, in a podium, with underground parking, yeah? Why not? Why not anchor a new tower with one? Generate the interest and a stream of revenue that a developer might need to go ahead with a project?

Frankly, Ian, I don't get you. Whenever someone suggests something that has worked well in other places and that could improve our downtown, you ALWAYS dismiss it and keep circling around the same argument of density, when you don't just dismiss it as a bad idea for good, without any explanation. It is confusing!

I just furnished a new place with 50% IKEA and like their style, value and variety. Hardly 'too suburban for me'.

We desperately need more retail options in the core, services of various kinds and alternatives for more people to keep them centrally or permit them to move there with a well served community.

We need destination retail but that boat has generally sailed to WEM and it continuous to devour any and everyone.

We don't have the central population, central workforce and clientele for certain things, but do have a high HHI and disproportionate student population in central Edmonton that needs to be better addressed.

I'd love to see an urban IKEA, an urban CdnTire and a No Frills, but the reality is that those are a short drive away and convenient for most people already. Pair that with the shift towards online/same-day delivery and the likelihood of a major new investment in expense real estate and its incredibly unlikely that we will anything.

Downtown Edmonton, like it or not, is becoming more of an entertainment, lifestyle, age-specific and cultural core than retail or shopping destination and to regain that will be incredibly difficult.

We MUST continue to focus on improving the overall experience (safety/look/feel), continue to work towards a doubling of the population to entice some retail as we develop pedestrian traffic and somehow find a way to convince 10-20k more workers/employers to relocate there if we want to even have a chance.

Getting old makes you 'murman-y', grumpy, bitter and realistic.

 

[ChazYEG]

I just furnished a new place with 50% IKEA and like their style, value and variety. Hardly 'too suburban for me'.

We desperately need more retail options in the core, services of various kinds and alternatives for more people to keep them centrally or permit them to move there with a well served community.

We need destination retail but that boat has generally sailed to WEM and it continuous to devour any and everyone.

We don't have the central population, central workforce and clientele for certain things, but do have a high HHI and disproportionate student population in central Edmonton that needs to be better addressed.

I'd love to see an urban IKEA, an urban CdnTire and a No Frills, but the reality is that those are a short drive away and convenient for most people already. Pair that with the shift towards online/same-day delivery and the likelihood of a major new investment in expense real estate and its incredibly unlikely that we will anything.

Downtown Edmonton, like it or not, is becoming more of an entertainment, lifestyle, age-specific and cultural core than retail or shopping destination and to regain that will be incredibly difficult.

We MUST continue to focus on improving the overall experience (safety/look/feel), continue to work towards a doubling of the population to entice some retail as we develop pedestrian traffic and somehow find a way to convince 10-20k more workers/employers to relocate there if we want to even have a chance.

Getting old makes you 'murman-y', grumpy, bitter and realistic.

Mod edit: Please keep things civil folks and focus on the issue instead of the person. I've intentionally edited this post.

Ian, WEM might've dealt a big blow to downtown's retail, but at 1.5M in the mero area, I wasn't what killed it (although I dare say it is not dead just yet, rather on life-support). South Edmonton Common and the likes of it are just as responsible, if not more, than WEM, for this.

Again, while the Downtown CORE has a lower population than I would like, the central neighborhoods are, by far, the densest and most populated, (Garneau and Oliver being two of the 3 most dense neighborhoods in Alberta). Also, the notion of convenient and short drive is lost on me, when you think that for more than half of the city, the closest (and only) Ikea is probably a 20 to 30 minute drive, unless you're going on a weekend. As for groceries, I think we'll be decently served with a Safeway (Oliver), the Save On (Grandin/Downtown), Sobeys (Oliver Square's store is renovating and will likely become a Sobeys) and two Loblaws City Market (Brewery and Ice Districts), especially considering that 3 of the 5 will be served by the Valley Line West and two of them are in very dense and populated areas). I would love to see something pop up south of Jasper, around 103/104 streets, though I agree that, as of now, there's probably not going to be enough demand for it, especially with a Walmart in the works for Kingsway Mall.

Urban economics, especially on the retail market, can work the other way around, and we've seen examples of that in much poorer, smaller and more isolated cities than Edmonton. You can induce demand with the right supply incentives, but for that you need people to stop whining about stuff and actually DO something. That goes for developers, businesses, the council, the mayor... Hell, Costco @ 149 St is ALWAYS stupidly busy and the traffic is HORRIBLE to get there most of the time, coming from DT and Oliver... I bet they also take in customers from most central neighborhoods north of the river. With it eventually closing (with the Yellowhead project, that's just a matter of time...), there's no space to put one closer to Downtown (because the closest ones will be either in Granville or South Edmonton Common)? You really don't think that it would help attract people to the core, make it friendlier to families (that shop there, A LOT, much more than singles or younger couples)? You really believe that having some of the stuff we only have in the suburbs wouldn't put the developers to think that maybe, people will be more interested in living there?

 

[CplKlinger]

especially with a Walmart in the works for Kingsway Mall.

This is super off-topic, but do you think it'll benefit from having a connection with the Metro line, like how the grocery stores could benefit from being along the VLW? I know the line technically has a stop at Kingsway, but the pedestrian connection between the two isn't really there (at least when I was there a few years ago). Can anyone speak to whether the mall is served by the station in actuality, or if LRT riders seem to use the station mainly for other destinations, like the hospital?

Here's a snip from google maps to show what I'm talking about. A six minute walk which takes people through a parking lot just doesn't seem that intuitive; I certainly got disorientated a couple of times when checking it out. There weren't directional signs or anything of the sort along the sidewalks themselves.

 

[ChazYEG]

This is super off-topic, but do you think it'll benefit from having a connection with the Metro line, like how the grocery stores could benefit from being along the VLW? I know the line technically has a stop at Kingsway, but the pedestrian connection between the two isn't really there (at least when I was there a few years ago). Can anyone speak to whether the mall is served by the station in actuality, or if LRT riders seem to use the station mainly for other destinations, like the hospital?

Here's a snip from google maps to show what I'm talking about. A six minute walk which takes people through a parking lot just doesn't seem that intuitive; I certainly got disorientated a couple of times when checking it out. There weren't directional signs or anything of the sort along the sidewalks themselves.
View attachment 337568

Usually grocery stores close to transit stations get a lot of traffic generated by the people who use the station to commute to/from work (depending on the store location). It is very common for people who don't drive to make smaller purchases, several times a week, usually on their way back to work. Bus stops don't usually have this power because the influx of people getting in and out at the same time is smaller than, say, the LRT. It is not uncommon to see grocery stores close to stations in cities with more of a transit culture than Edmonton (which I hope will change, as our LRT network grows).

As for the Kingsway station, it is not the one best serving the mall. NAIT station is closer and actually sees quite a few people (mostly students) use to to go to the mall, as it is a 300m walk to the closes entrance and will be a little closer to the Walmart (which will probably have a north facing entrance, shortening the walk in some 50m). Walmart will probably end up being one good, cheap option, for the student population around NAIT, Norquest and MacEwan, which becomes closer and easier to go to with the station so close.

 

[.crystalised.]

10,000... more like 100,000

That's a lot of Allen keys...

 

[.crystalised.]

This is super off-topic, but do you think it'll benefit from having a connection with the Metro line, like how the grocery stores could benefit from being along the VLW? I know the line technically has a stop at Kingsway, but the pedestrian connection between the two isn't really there (at least when I was there a few years ago). Can anyone speak to whether the mall is served by the station in actuality, or if LRT riders seem to use the station mainly for other destinations, like the hospital?

Here's a snip from google maps to show what I'm talking about. A six minute walk which takes people through a parking lot just doesn't seem that intuitive; I certainly got disorientated a couple of times when checking it out. There weren't directional signs or anything of the sort along the sidewalks themselves.
View attachment 337568

For what it's worth, I've exclusively used that stop for the mall, not yet for the hospital (knock wood). But ETS delays and signalling issues (not just Thales related but also the questionable traffic light setup at Kingsway & 111) make it a less than convenient walk to the shopping centre. Lots of standing around and waiting to cross 111 Avenue, which feels much longer when it's -40C.

I'm sure Walmart will induce further ridership, but it saddens me that we're getting another damn Walmart in this city, and at Kingsway, no less. If we really need another one, I'd rather it go in at City Centre or as an anchor tenant to get the Block IJ tower going; downtown needs the activation a Walmart would help bring.

 

[.crystalised.]

As for the Kingsway station, it is not the one best serving the mall. NAIT station is closer and actually sees quite a few people (mostly students) use to to go to the mall, as it is a 300m walk to the closes entrance and will be a little closer to the Walmart (which will probably have a north facing entrance, shortening the walk in some 50m). Walmart will probably end up being one good, cheap option, for the student population around NAIT, Norquest and MacEwan, which becomes closer and easier to go to with the station so close.

Thanks for the tip. I've never thought of using the NAIT station for the mall, because it's placed further than the mall, it's on the other side of the mall, and at the end of the line. Silly me. To spare myself from too much embarassment though, I go to Kingsway like twice a year at most...

 

[ChazYEG]

For what it's worth, I've exclusively used that stop for the mall, not yet for the hospital (knock wood). But ETS delays and signalling issues (not just Thales related but also the questionable traffic light setup at Kingsway & 111) make it a less than convenient walk to the shopping centre. Lots of standing around and waiting to cross 111 Avenue, which feels much longer when it's -40C.

I'm sure Walmart will induce further ridership, but it saddens me that we're getting another damn Walmart in this city, and at Kingsway, no less. If we really need another one, I'd rather it go in at City Centre or as an anchor tenant to get the Block IJ tower going; downtown needs the activation a Walmart would help bring.

I agree 99%. Only thing off the mark is that we're not adding a new Walmart, just replacing the Westmount Mall one.

As for using the NAIT stop, it not only is a little closer but it only has one crossing, with much lower waiting times than 111 Avenue! Before we had to buy our car (I was working in the middle of the transit vacuum that is our industrial area) I used this station quite a bit (and the Clareview one even more, to shop at Costco, Superstore and Walmart)

 

[.crystalised.]

I agree 99%. Only thing off the mark is that we're not adding a new Walmart, just replacing the Westmount Mall one.

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better.

 

[archited]

Wallmart is one of the Retail megastores partly responsible for the demise of small-scale on-the-street retail. No-one should be supporting them no matter where they are located.

 

[TAS]

Lots of standing around and waiting to cross 111 Avenue, which feels much longer when it's -40C.
.

Fortunately, it is a rare occurrence that it is -40C during the day time in Edmonton. And it's generally fewer than 10 days in a year where it is even -30C during the day.

But I digress.