[quit]

Councillor Cartmell's take on the gondola.

Councillor Tim Cartmell

Learn more on Tim's website!

www.timcartmell.ca

Good read imo, especially the notion of the power plant and money it will require. I think in a world without COVID this project is a no brainer. In a world with COVID and other fiscal realities the city is facing, I'm not so sure. It is good that city council is thinking about this critically and from both sides - that is what they were elected to do.

 

[Kaizen]

Your definitely entitled to your opinion my friend, most definitely. I respectfully disagree with your suggestions with the exception of the streetcar running year-round and better bus connection/frequency, both are definitely needed.
Our central river valley needs a lot of help regarding access and promotion of its natural beauty in the least obtrusive way. The gondola is a very forward-thinking idea, I can't imagine how it's not a win-win but I will continue to consider the options.

 

[ojr]

Good read imo, especially the notion of the power plant and money it will require. I think in a world without COVID this project is a no brainer. In a world with COVID and other fiscal realities the city is facing, I'm not so sure. It is good that city council is thinking about this critically and from both sides - that is what they were elected to do.

Am I missing something? My understanding is that this project would be financed without any city help, so why would fiscal realities affect the city's decision?

 

[ChazYEG]

Am I missing something? My understanding is that this project would be financed without any city help, so why would fiscal realities affect the city's decision?

There's some indirect cost that will eventually be thrown at someone's (not necessarily the city's) lap. Development of the Rossdale Power Plant, for example, which will cost millions just to bring it to code and allow for occupancy.
That said, I see this as a great opportunity for the city to open the areas around the Gondola for private investment that is eco-friendly, financially independent and self-sustainable.

 

[IanO]

The gondola will make West Rossdale, the power plant and the surrounding area much more attractive for any potential development.

 

[itom987]

The Rossdale Power Plant being open is not a requirement for the Gondola to work. It would be a bonus if the plant was open though.

 

[The_Cat]

I think there could be indirect benefits like more visitors to Strathcona from north of the North Saskatchewan. The LRT doesn't reach there, and any commute to Strathcona means a bunch of stop lights. If you could take a bus from Westmount to Rossdale, then a gondola to Old Strathcona or Downtown. Sherwood Park also has the 414 and 411 buses en route to Downtown and University and a stop at Rossdale offers more options.

 

[itom987]

The Gondola would make an excellent pub crawl for the young ones wanting to check out the bars in downtown and strathcona.

 

[JC_Yeg]

I am always surprised at the international / regional tourism numbers for WEM alone. I honestly believe that a Gondola could be the deciding factor for someone visiting Banff/ Calgary and deciding if an extra trip to Edmonton is worthwhile. Locals may know how to navigate the River Valley and our destination streets, but to a tourist the Gondola would be a pleasant and thoughtless way to experience Edmonton's highlights. Add in the new investments to LRT, bike lanes, wayfinding, 'Touch the Water', Highlevel line / streetcar, expansion, powerplant, etc. Either way, the Gondola could really help spur that!

 

[jason403]

I think that the gondola is a cool little project. I also think it's going to fail spectacularly financially. I don't think it's going to be used much other than people using it as a fun thing to do on weekends, and I think ridership will only occur in fair weather. I believe there isn't much demand for getting from downtown to Whyte, and it is likely redundant to other transportation options available.

However, I hope that I am wrong, and since it is a private venture, there isn't a significant amount of city of Edmonton funds invested in this. I just hope in the unfortunate event that this does fail, the city will not have to spend public funds to either maintain service, or decommission the project.

 

[Omega Prime]

I think that the gondola is a cool little project. I also think it's going to fail spectacularly financially. I don't think it's going to be used much other than people using it as a fun thing to do on weekends, and I think ridership will only occur in fair weather. I believe there isn't much demand for getting from downtown to Whyte, and it is likely redundant to other transportation options available.

I actually think a gondola ride when it's snowing outside in the winter would be absolutely spectacular, and would lend well to being a Winter City attracting tourists. Gondolas very much lend well to the cold weather experience.

 

[cliffapotamus]

I think the gondola is a bit of that 'can't judge the demand for a bridge based on the number of people swimming across the river' type deals (did i phrase that right? it's a Brent Toderian thing). Right now, getting to Whyte is rather tricky, just a lot of people put up with it ('swimming across the river'). driving there is a nightmare, and we don't want it filling up with parking lots to fix that. Buses run down it, but to get to one of them you have to transfer at U of A (or Bonny Doon soon, but that's an even farther haul to the fun area). biking is decent, walking mediocre.
To walk/bike, especially when coming from downtown, the Valley itself is a huge hurdle. you either cross at the High level, which makes you travel west to the edge of downtown, then dumps you out at the West edge of Whyte Ave, meaning a lot of extra walking to go from a major transfer like Corona or Churchill Station to say, the farmer's market; or you have to take the Walterdale bridge, which involves a long walk down into the valley on the north side with subpar sidewalks, and a hike up the south side on some lovely -but very steep- trails. None of the options are accessible to someone with mobility issues, and honestly are beyond what most people would have the wherewithal to undertake in any sort of inclement weather.
Transit could be improved along Whyte Ave itself; but the issue remains that crossing the river via transit will only dump you at one end of the ave or the other, and then you have to move along it to get to your destination. This inconvenient routing is a non-starter for a lot of people, they'll either drive, or not go at all.
The point I'm meandering around here is that access to Whyte Ave isn't as good as it ought to be, and i think there is a lot of pent-up demand and potential for growth in connecting the key points, the actual centers of DT and Whyte with something direct. it wouldn't just be a novelty; there are lots of people looking to go to Whyte, but don't do it often because of how difficult it is currently. if a system allowed you to take any of the LRT lines into DT (which will soon be much easier for a lot of people to do) then make a simple transfer to something that gets you to the heart of Whyte in 10-15 minutes, that would be huge. I mean, there a people who commute via ERRS in the summer. if people are going to the lengths of relying on a 100-year-old streetcar to get to work, there must be demand for a more robust connection between the two areas,

 

[Platinum107]

I whole-heartedly support this project. Yes, Edmonton may not be in the mountains or have much topography on the whole, but we are unique in the sense that we have a huge, wide and deep river valley cutting our city in half which does have topography to overcome. I have no doubts that this gondola will not only break even but will be very popular for use, with the majority using it being normal city commuters and minority tourists (although it'll still draw many of them). Downtown and Whyte Ave are the 2 cultural and economic centres of our city and, in my opinion, need a direct and innovative connection like this. Of course, development of Rossdale will also greatly help this project.

I think the gondola is a bit of that 'can't judge the demand for a bridge based on the number of people swimming across the river' type deals (did i phrase that right? it's a Brent Toderian thing). Right now, getting to Whyte is rather tricky, just a lot of people put up with it ('swimming across the river'). driving there is a nightmare, and we don't want it filling up with parking lots to fix that. Buses run down it, but to get to one of them you have to transfer at U of A (or Bonny Doon soon, but that's an even farther haul to the fun area). biking is decent, walking mediocre.
To walk/bike, especially when coming from downtown, the Valley itself is a huge hurdle. you either cross at the High level, which makes you travel west to the edge of downtown, then dumps you out at the West edge of Whyte Ave, meaning a lot of extra walking to go from a major transfer like Corona or Churchill Station to say, the farmer's market; or you have to take the Walterdale bridge, which involves a long walk down into the valley on the north side with subpar sidewalks, and a hike up the south side on some lovely -but very steep- trails. None of the options are accessible to someone with mobility issues, and honestly are beyond what most people would have the wherewithal to undertake in any sort of inclement weather.
Transit could be improved along Whyte Ave itself; but the issue remains that crossing the river via transit will only dump you at one end of the ave or the other, and then you have to move along it to get to your destination. This inconvenient routing is a non-starter for a lot of people, they'll either drive, or not go at all.
The point I'm meandering around here is that access to Whyte Ave isn't as good as it ought to be, and i think there is a lot of pent-up demand and potential for growth in connecting the key points, the actual centers of DT and Whyte with something direct. it wouldn't just be a novelty; there are lots of people looking to go to Whyte, but don't do it often because of how difficult it is currently. if a system allowed you to take any of the LRT lines into DT (which will soon be much easier for a lot of people to do) then make a simple transfer to something that gets you to the heart of Whyte in 10-15 minutes, that would be huge. I mean, there a people who commute via ERRS in the summer. if people are going to the lengths of relying on a 100-year-old streetcar to get to work, there must be demand for a more robust connection between the two areas,

Good post explaining the options we have at the moment for the commute.

 

[thommyjo]

PSG has very ambitious estimates of use i believe, but I really do think it could work. Especially if the city can hit its goals of more density DT and around whyte Ave. People who drive daily won't use this as much. But if you walk and bike, this is a perfect addition I think!

I think a huge aid would be rossdale developing. Granville Island is what makes the false creek ferry boats possible. They're the only fast and direct connection, so people use them. Rossdale sucks to get to by car and bus rn. And as it densifies, the driving will be worse. So this seems like a perfect connection.

I also think eventually, at 2million people, our current connections to DT won't be great. So alternatives like bridges for cars or another lrt bridge would need to be considered. Both of which are worse in most ways (costly, more destructive, uglier, less simple connection points/stops). I honestly think it would even be wise for the city in 25 years to build this themselves for ETS. Right now its premature for public money.

Innovation is always a risk. This is a calculated one with minimal downside to the average citizen vs the potential upside to our city.

Also, i think that smart people putting lots of their own money into projects is always a safer bet than elected officials investing taxpayers dollars. They have a greater motivation to ensure success. Doesn’t guarantee anything, but I'll bet on it more.

 

[The_Cat]

Look at the resistance Old Strathcona showed with the proposed road (and bridge at Saskatchewan Drive) to the Walterdale bridge. There is no room to build another road, and a pedestrian bridge would be impossible. The gondola would provide a new route that would encourage pedestrian traffic in Downtown and Strathcona as well as the River Valley. The peak season would probably be between Victoria Day and Labour Day, but I think there would be some use on workdays.