[erudyk_29]

Just a quick note, 24% is likely the marginal tax rate for a minimum wage earner. I’d guess the average tax rate for them is somewhere between 10-15%. Then you also qualify for pretty well every benefit out there (gst cheques, child tax benefits, etc). Someone in this position, should be able to live decently with a room mate in a 2 bedroom apartment

I checked the tax brackets that this person would fall into at both the provincial and federal level and it was 24%, I'm not sure if there are any caveats to that, though as you mention there probably are. You're also right that this person probably has access to a lot of tax benefits.

This doesn't change the fact that they're still living paycheck to paycheck, with very little if any hope of upward social mobility. Any increase in rent could still put this person on the brink of become homeless or even over the edge or having to make choices between eating and paying rent.

It is admittedly an extreme case as I said, but there's a reason there's been such a big increase in the amount of homeless folks in recent years. A massive part of that is that a lot of people simply can't afford any type of housing, even in a relatively affordable city like Edmonton.

 

[edm13]

I checked the tax brackets that this person would fall into at both the provincial and federal level and it was 24%, I'm not sure if there are any caveats to that, though as you mention there probably are. You're also right that this person probably has access to a lot of tax benefits.

This doesn't change the fact that they're still living paycheck to paycheck, with very little if any hope of upward social mobility. Any increase in rent could still put this person on the brink of become homeless or even over the edge or having to make choices between eating and paying rent.

It is admittedly an extreme case as I said, but there's a reason there's been such a big increase in the amount of homeless folks in recent years. A massive part of that is that a lot of people simply can't afford any type of housing, even in a relatively affordable city like Edmonton.

Yes, so those brackets would apply to any marginal income. For the 2024 tax year, the federal basic personal amount is $15,7051 and the Alberta basic personal amount is $21,885. So you pay no tax on these initial amounts you earn. So a minimum wage earner would pay very little in tax.

I can see your point but people are also just not making good financial choices, probably cause they were never really taught. Honestly, if I was in that situation, I’d be working my day job and any side jobs I could find. Someone always needs their snow shovelled or grass cut, etc. you have to be willing to hustle. I also wouldn’t be spending money on liquor, smokes, drugs and the rest of it. So there is some personal accountability required.

That being said, I honestly don’t know how people on minimum wage survive in the more expensive cities. All I can think is 4 of them move in together as roommates

 

[kcantor]

Yes, so those brackets would apply to any marginal income. For the 2024 tax year, the federal basic personal amount is $15,7051 and the Alberta basic personal amount is $21,885. So you pay no tax on these initial amounts you earn. So a minimum wage earner would pay very little in tax.

I can see your point but people are also just not making good financial choices, probably cause they were never really taught. Honestly, if I was in that situation, I’d be working my day job and any side jobs I could find. Someone always needs their snow shovelled or grass cut, etc. you have to be willing to hustle. I also wouldn’t be spending money on liquor, smokes, drugs and the rest of it. So there is some personal accountability required.

That being said, I honestly don’t know how people on minimum wage survive in the more expensive cities. All I can think is 4 of them move in together as roommates

Not that I'm advocating it but a friend of ours transferred from Vancouver to London, England. She ended up three tube stops from work and shared a one bedroom apartment with two twin beds with 5 others. They all worked shift work and each had access to one of the beds for 8 hours a day.

 

[David A]

Yes, so those brackets would apply to any marginal income. For the 2024 tax year, the federal basic personal amount is $15,7051 and the Alberta basic personal amount is $21,885. So you pay no tax on these initial amounts you earn. So a minimum wage earner would pay very little in tax.

I can see your point but people are also just not making good financial choices, probably cause they were never really taught. Honestly, if I was in that situation, I’d be working my day job and any side jobs I could find. Someone always needs their snow shovelled or grass cut, etc. you have to be willing to hustle. I also wouldn’t be spending money on liquor, smokes, drugs and the rest of it. So there is some personal accountability required.

That being said, I honestly don’t know how people on minimum wage survive in the more expensive cities. All I can think is 4 of them move in together as roommates

Yes, if you make $15,000 you pay no Federal or Alberta tax. However, after deductions for CPP or EI (probably around 7%) but that leave around $1,160 per month to live on which may barely cover rent for a 1 bedroom apt these days even here. So yes, you would probably need a room mate if you want to eat also.

The Federal tax rate is 15% and Alberta is 10% I believe, so not sure how that makes 24%, but it is close. Add 7% or so on for CPP and EI and that is 32% marginal deductions even for someone is a lower bracket.

 

[edm13]

Yes, if you make $15,000 you pay no Federal or Alberta tax. However, after deductions for CPP or EI (probably around 7%) but that leave around $1,160 per month to live on which may barely cover rent for a 1 bedroom apt these days even here. So yes, you would probably need a room mate if you want to eat also.

The Federal tax rate is 15% and Alberta is 10% I believe, so not sure how that makes 24%, but it is close. Add 7% or so on for CPP and EI and that is 32% marginal deductions even for someone is a lower bracket.

Well if you’re only making $15,000 per year, then you’re basically working 20 hours a week at minimum wage. If that’s the path someone is choosing (assuming they are able bodied), then you get what you get. I wanted to make some extra cash last winter. I handed out flyers in my neighbourhood (places within walking distance) I had 3 homes, was able to make $500 extra per month. Point is, at full time minimum wage, you effectively pay no tax (when you factor in all the other benefits you qualify for). In Edmonton, you can make it with a room mate, if you’re half decent with your money. I have a rental home with a top floor and bottom floor suite. The bottom floor rents for $900 + $250 utilities. It’s over 1,000 square feet with two bedrooms. Again, assuming you are able to work, you can make this work. Finally, any one who works at a place for any amount of reasonable time, would likely earn some pay raises. This is true for even a lot of highschool kids, a few I know make $17-18 per hour. This would add another few hundred per month

 

[David A]

Well if you’re only making $15,000 per year, then you’re basically working 20 hours a week at minimum wage. If that’s the path someone is choosing (assuming they are able bodied), then you get what you get. I wanted to make some extra cash last winter. I handed out flyers in my neighbourhood (places within walking distance) I had 3 homes, was able to make $500 extra per month. Point is, at full time minimum wage, you effectively pay no tax (when you factor in all the other benefits you qualify for). In Edmonton, you can make it with a room mate, if you’re half decent with your money. I have a rental home with a top floor and bottom floor suite. The bottom floor rents for $900 + $250 utilities. It’s over 1,000 square feet with two bedrooms. Again, assuming you are able to work, you can make this work. Finally, any one who works at a place for any amount of reasonable time, would likely earn some pay raises. This is true for even a lot of highschool kids, a few I know make $17-18 per hour. This would add another few hundred per month

You might not "choose" to have a disability, illness or health condition that limits how much you can work or the jobs available to you, or you may be a caregiver to someone so can only work part time. So lets not make the assumption this is always a choice. And actually 20 hours at minimum wage would still fall short of 15,000 because even without tax you would still have CPP and EI deducted.

In any event, I used 15,000 because this is close to the point you start paying Federal tax. If it doesn't make sense having to pay tax, but not have enough to pay rent in what is still one of Canada's more affordable major cities, then you understand the point.

 

[edm13]

You might not "choose" to have a disability, illness or health condition that limits how much you can work or the jobs available to you, or you may be a caregiver to someone so can only work part time. So lets not make the assumption this is always a choice. And actually 20 hours at minimum wage would still fall short of 15,000 because even without tax you would still have CPP and EI deducted.

In any event, I used 15,000 because this is close to the point you start paying Federal tax. If it doesn't make sense having to pay tax, but not have enough to pay rent in what is still one of Canada's more affordable major cities, then you understand the point.

lol your response tells me exactly where you stopped reading my post

 

[David A]

lol your response tells me exactly where you stopped reading my post

You are making assumptions. I actually did read through the whole thing, but starting off with the whole lets assume they are lazy was a bit much to take and it did impact my response.

 

[edm13]

You are making assumptions. I actually did read through the whole thing, but starting off with the whole lets assume they are lazy was a bit much to take and it did impact my response.

You are exhausting my friend. “(assuming they are able bodied)” ^^^

 

[IanO]

Wow.

That all said, many people in Edmonton can afford $2500-3500 a month if they so choose and some prefer location over size or car and so $2500-3500 a small top of market 2 bdrm connected to LRT, a grocery, potentially their office and near Oilers might be bang on for some, even if upwards of 50% of income.

 

[policyenthusiast]

Not sure if I would call this conversation "Edmonton Real Estate" related.

Priority Growth Area Rezoning — The City of Edmonton is proactively rezoning select sites within three parts of the city that have been identified as having the greatest potential for development and density. Administration has created a refined list of sites proposed for rezoning, based on past public feedback, which can be viewed on an interactive map. Drop-in engagement sessions for the 156 Street NW and Stony Plain Road NW Corridors, the Wîhkwêntôwin (Oliver) and 124 Street NW Corridor, and the University-Garneau Node are set for Nov. 7, Nov. 12, and Nov. 13 respectively, while digital engagement opportunities for all zones are open until Nov. 24.