[occidentalcapital]

EXCEPT that a majority of people now use their primary residence as their primary investment/asset/instrument.

Vancouver is overrated? It is one of the most beautiful urban metropolis' in the world with an incredible lifestyle, climate, culinary, arts and sports options with IMO the best airport in Canada. Is some of the pricing there stupid, yup, but it is a city unique to Canada is highly desirable and attracts a lot of foreign investment.

Calgary and especially Ottawa are much more mature urban centres than Edmonton.

Montreal is sublime, but now getting pretty expensive; it was only a few years ago that housing prices there were on par with Edmonton.

Victoria, QC and now too Halifax are most wonderful mid-sized cities that all attract massive tourism numbers that provide them amenities they would not otherwise have.

Define mature urban centre? Edmonton's core is older, ie more mature than Calg generally.

 

[IanO]

Older does not necessarily equate to 'mature'.

Calgary's Downtown and central neighbourhoods are far more urban vis a vis, with the exception being Old Strathcona and and parts of 124st.

They have dozens more near or complete streets with far more density, amenity and service.

 

[archited]

Older does not necessarily equate to 'mature'

Ain't that the truth (especially where it applies to people). Remind me... what exactly is it that you "love" about Edmonton.

 

[IanO]

The weather, roads, mall and political will.

 

[soupcrate]

I'm curious, along with the equity people may accumulate as homeowners that are reflected in these stats, would the same be true for the development industry in all these cities?

For instance, do property developers and home builders in Edmonton have a similar rate of return that is significantly lower than the rest of the country?

Rising prices mostly benefit homeowners.

 

[TAS]

Rising prices mostly benefit homeowners.
View attachment 504938

Thanks
So does this mean developers/builders generally have a 15% profit margin on all builds?
In which case builders in Edmonton make less overall profits because they are earning 15% on $400,000 here vs 15% on $800,000 in Ontario on the sale of a new sfh in the suburbs? So in essence they need to build more to see the kinds of gross revenue in other cities?

 

[dunno]

EXCEPT that a majority of people now use their primary residence as their primary investment/asset/instrument.

Vancouver is overrated? It is one of the most beautiful urban metropolis' in the world with an incredible lifestyle, climate, culinary, arts and sports options with IMO the best airport in Canada. Is some of the pricing there stupid, yup, but it is a city unique to Canada is highly desirable and attracts a lot of foreign investment.

Calgary and especially Ottawa are much more mature urban centres than Edmonton.

Montreal is sublime, but now getting pretty expensive; it was only a few years ago that housing prices there were on par with Edmonton.

Victoria, QC and now too Halifax are most wonderful mid-sized cities that all attract massive tourism numbers that provide them amenities they would not otherwise have.

I don’t hate Vancouver, but I was finally there again for the first time in years this summer and my main take away? It’s… fine. A pleasant place with beautiful things. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s been the centre of some of the most forward-thinking urban planning in North America since the mid ‘80s but as a city it feels just perfectly fine. It doesn’t feel like a robust, complete place like Seattle, even with better transit and density. I think it’s a mixture of Canadian underimagination when it comes to building great cities and Vancouver itself kind of resting heavily on its beautiful setting. That’s long been my main criticism of it — take away the mountains and the beach, leave just the city, and it’s kinda boring for what you get.

You even say it’s one of the most beautiful cities in the world. It does have a stunning natural setting, yes, but so does Hong Kong, Geneva, Barcelona, Chongqing, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Lisbon, Istanbul, Oslo, Sydney, etc. All of these cities have just as, if not more interesting urban fabric, culture, etc.

 

[dunno]

Define mature urban centre? Edmonton's core is older, ie more mature than Calg generally.

Calgary was also a bit bigger than Edmonton in the early 20th century thanks in part to the Turner Valley oil boom. If you wander around the older areas in central Calgary, there is just a little bit more old buildings than equivalent areas in Edmonton. It’s very subtle, because the difference wasn’t dramatic, but it does help them out. I think it was only around WWII that Edmonton regained top position, which it held (in metro area) until the early 2000s.

 

[IanO]

Thanks
So does this mean developers/builders generally have a 15% profit margin on all builds?
In which case builders in Edmonton make less overall profits because they are earning 15% on $400,000 here vs 15% on $800,000 in Ontario on the sale of a new sfh in the suburbs? So in essence they need to build more to see the kinds of gross revenue in other cities?

It varies considerably, but 15-20% gross margin is pretty standard and quite low given the risk they take on.

 

[ChazYEG]

EXCEPT that a majority of people now use their primary residence as their primary investment/asset/instrument.

You missed my point entirely. THIS is the mistake, and the solution goes through changing this mindset through financial education.

Vancouver is overrated? It is one of the most beautiful urban metropolis' in the world with an incredible lifestyle, climate, culinary, arts and sports options with IMO the best airport in Canada. Is some of the pricing there stupid, yup, but it is a city unique to Canada is highly desirable and attracts a lot of foreign investment.

As someone said, it's a fine city, but it's far from being as interesting, vibrant and complete as Toronto, and yet prices there are even higher, now. Lifestyle and Climate are 100% a matter of preference, and in my opinion, both are VERY overrated in Vancouver (6 months of endless doom and gloom grey rainy weather? no thanks!). The culinary scene PALES in comparison to Toronto and Montreal.

Calgary and especially Ottawa are much more mature urban centres than Edmonton.

That might be, but not everyone is attracted by a more urban lifestyle, and as far as being MUCH more mature, this is an exaggeration. They're more mature, but not by the margin you suggest. And in terms of general offering, they're even less ahead of Edmonton, all things considered. Does not justify the price gap.

Montreal is sublime, but now getting pretty expensive; it was only a few years ago that housing prices there were on par with Edmonton.

It is still on par with Calgary, but with a much better experience, in general, being a significantly more mature urban centre.

Victoria, QC and now too Halifax are most wonderful mid-sized cities that all attract massive tourism numbers that provide them amenities they would not otherwise have.

I don't disagree, but still far short of the major cities, in terms of amenities offered, and yet, at least Victoria and Halifax are substantially more expensive than Edmonton.

 

[ChazYEG]

You even say it’s one of the most beautiful cities in the world. It does have a stunning natural setting, yes, but so does Hong Kong, Geneva, Barcelona, Chongqing, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Lisbon, Istanbul, Oslo, Sydney, etc. All of these cities have just as, if not more interesting urban fabric, culture, etc.

Precisely. You can add to that list cities like Geneva, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Cartagena, Zurich, Rio... Vancouver is not all that special, and comparing to some of these cities, as well as Montreal and Toronto, falls short in terms of urban fabric, culture and vibrancy. And yet it is just as expensive, if not more, than all of these, hence why I find it to be overrated.

 

[thommyjo]

You missed my point entirely. THIS is the mistake, and the solution goes through changing this mindset through financial education.


As someone said, it's a fine city, but it's far from being as interesting, vibrant and complete as Toronto, and yet prices there are even higher, now. Lifestyle and Climate are 100% a matter of preference, and in my opinion, both are VERY overrated in Vancouver (6 months of endless doom and gloom grey rainy weather? no thanks!). The culinary scene PALES in comparison to Toronto and Montreal.


That might be, but not everyone is attracted by a more urban lifestyle, and as far as being MUCH more mature, this is an exaggeration. They're more mature, but not by the margin you suggest. And in terms of general offering, they're even less ahead of Edmonton, all things considered. Does not justify the price gap.


It is still on par with Calgary, but with a much better experience, in general, being a significantly more mature urban centre.


I don't disagree, but still far short of the major cities, in terms of amenities offered, and yet, at least Victoria and Halifax are substantially more expensive than Edmonton.

You can disagree with how people use their money. Doesn’t mean it’s untrue and not reality. Over 3/4 of wealth gains in canada the last 5 years were real estate I read in an article recently. That’s insane.

And you aren’t really claiming the “just save/invest” vs real estate card, right? Putting 5-10% down and getting a TAX FREE gain on the FULL appreciation of a primary residence is the single fastest way to grow wealth in Canada. I had a friend buy a townhouse in Oshawa for 480k and seek for 860k in 17 months. Made 50k a year in income. What’s the math on how long it’d take him to save 380k from his income and investments?

The reason all the Ontario small towns and Atlantic canada, and now Calgary locals get mad about being “priced out” is because when people who have done everything the same as you in life end up with twice the wealth, it decreases your buying power and future financial outlook.

There’s no easy solutions. But you have to acknowledge the challenge this creates for Edmontonians.

 

[David A]

Precisely. You can add to that list cities like Geneva, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Cartagena, Zurich, Rio... Vancouver is not all that special, and comparing to some of these cities, as well as Montreal and Toronto, falls short in terms of urban fabric, culture and vibrancy. And yet it is just as expensive, if not more, than all of these, hence why I find it to be overrated.

For me, it sort of seems like the Canadian version of LA, except with more density and much wetter weather. Montreal has a rich, vibrant culture and history, Toronto has some of that and is also a significant business centre.

Yes, Vancouver is nice to visit for the scenery. However I am considering a short fall trip and I was thinking about going to Vancouver, but I am leaning towards someplace possibly more interesting I have never gone to.

 

[David A]

You can disagree with how people use their money. Doesn’t mean it’s untrue and not reality. Over 3/4 of wealth gains in canada the last 5 years were real estate I read in an article recently. That’s insane.

And you aren’t really claiming the “just save/invest” vs real estate card, right? Putting 5-10% down and getting a TAX FREE gain on the FULL appreciation of a primary residence is the single fastest way to grow wealth in Canada. I had a friend buy a townhouse in Oshawa for 480k and seek for 860k in 17 months. Made 50k a year in income. What’s the math on how long it’d take him to save 380k from his income and investments?

The reason all the Ontario small towns and Atlantic canada, and now Calgary locals get mad about being “priced out” is because when people who have done everything the same as you in life end up with twice the wealth, it decreases your buying power and future financial outlook.

There’s no easy solutions. But you have to acknowledge the challenge this creates for Edmontonians.

In some ways we are fortunate, we have a front row seat and can see what is happening now in Calgary. Numerically, the number of Canadians that live in places where real estate has become, or is becoming unaffordable, exceeds than those that live in still affordable places. So we need to brace ourselves, as the affordability refugees can easily overwhelm any remaining affordable places.

 

[David A]

Luxury condo sales begin to pick up in Alberta's capital

The value presented by Edmonton's luxury condos is attracting interest.

edmontonjournal.com