[archited]

The technology is there; the assemblage is not -- hence a test track. Who could be opposed to that?

 

[kcantor]

The technology is there; the assemblage is not -- hence a test track. Who could be opposed to that?

the technology is there for hsr as well - and to a much higher level than the hyper loop alternative - but as anyone following its assemblage in california can tell you the devil is in the assemblage.

 

[archited]

the technology is there for hsr as well - and to a much higher level than the hyper loop alternative

How so Kenneth?

 

[soupcrate]

The main argument around HSR is whether it's economically viable. The main argument around Hyperloop is still about whether it's physically possible.

If we're going to throw public money around (which I think we should), it should go to HSR. Hyperloop is pure fantasy at this point.

 

[Garneau2Go]

It's one of those things where I'm not opposed to Hyperloop in theory, but Alberta isn't big enough to have demand for both HSR and Hyperloop.

I've been on an HSR line. The Frecciarosa 1000 in Italy is hands down the best travel experience I've ever had. It's a technology that exists right now and can be built with experienced engineers from Germany to Japan, to Morocco. The Hyperloop is a lot of risk for technical and financial viablilty. We potentially only get one good shot at building a mass transit line between the two cities and I don't think it's worth it over HSR.

I would genuinely love to be proven wrong though, 30 min between Edmonton and Calgary would be a dream.

 

[kcantor]

How so Kenneth?

how so???

there are currently more than 130,000 km of hsr either operating or actually under construction on 5 continents utilizing a number of different designs and technologies but all capable of operating at more than 200 kph on upgraded track and between 250 and 350 kph on new track.

as far as i know there is now a grand total of one operating hyperloop test track in the world which is virgin's test track in vegas which is all of 0.5 km long. it carried two passengers on a total of one trip reaching a speed of 160 kph although unmanned tests did reach 240 kph in 2017 so there hasn't been much - if any - progress in the last half decade. it's also worth noting that all of these tests were conducted in a scaled down pod that weighs considerably less than the pod sized upon which all of the financial modeling has been done (modeling which in many camps is still considered to be not much more than vapour-ware).

spacex who were relatively early proponents of the potential have demolished their test track and converted it into a parking lot (although not a very big parking lot as it wasn't a very big track either) and don't seem to have any appetite going forward.

some of the interesting challenges that still remain include design limitations that remain unsolved including:

• safety aspects and certification, particularly around the potential impact of geological or temperature induced or design failures.
• the difficulty of maintaining a vacuum over long distances and the operational issues of loading and unloading to and from a vacuum environment at still pressurized stations or depots.
• it pretty much has to run in a straight line (even more-so than hsr) in that projected potential speeds start to require more than 6 miles of track to make a turn meaning row acquisition costs could be driven up quite dramatically be the lack of alternative routing capacity.

 

[archited]

Ken, you are misleading when you use the word "vacuum" -- there simply needs to be a pressure differential between the leading edge and the tailing edge of the vehicle in the tube. A true vacuum would be a structural improbability if not an impossibility -- the technology is not asking for that. The "straight" track comment too is misleading; centrifugal forces for both systems, HSR and Hyperloop, demand long curve directional changes. And the hyperloop curve would be even smaller than HSR from an angular sense in that there would be upper vehicle guides as well as lower guides -- impossible to derail from a speed perspective. Safety aspects and certifications would be required equally from both systems. And actually Elon Musk has been proposing an underground high-speed auto transport that uses a great deal of the technology wrapped up in Hyperloop -- read up on "the boring company" and its proposed use in Los Angeles.
As far as Virgin's half mile track in Nevada, how fast would you expect a vehicle to go in that short distance?
As long as the Transpod company has its own investors -- not looking for public money input -- why not support the notion of the test-track proceeding, whether you are a fan or not of the technology. The latest maglev rail in Japan has a very long tunnel section (most of it underground) where, to not cause the train running into a "wind bank" and having to deal with the inherent "shock" in that, the engineers have devised a reversible wind motion system to help the train maintain speed when entering into the tunnel sections -- something akin to the Hyperloop mode reducing air pressure. The Chuo Shinkansen line will be the fastest on earth traveling in excess of 500 kph.

 

[kcantor]

Ken, you are misleading when you use the word "vacuum" -- there simply needs to be a pressure differential between the leading edge and the tailing edge of the vehicle in the tube. A true vacuum would be a structural improbability if not an impossibility -- the technology is not asking for that...

i don't think i'm being misleading using the same terminology that the proponents use and believe both they and i are using the word correctly. a vacuum is practically defined not as being devoid of all matter (which would therefore have zero atmospheric pressure, sometimes referred to as a perfect vacuum) but as any space having a gaseous pressure substantially less than atmospheric pressure. given atmospheric pressure (at sea level) is nominally greater than 100,000 pa and hyperloop proposes an operating environment of less than 100 pa, i'll stand by it. from hyperloop's own website:

whether less than 100 pa is possible to generate and maintain is key to all of the performance/speed algorithms being used to support their claims so i think it's more than fair to consider the implications of having to deal with that level of vacuum.

as far as the "upper vehicle guides" you make mention of, i have never seen any mockups or renderings of either cars or enclosures that show them although i do recall some renderings showing the pods suspended from an upper track that didn't show a lower track. as for the impact of two sets of tracks on construction and maintenance costs as well as performance, i'll leave that to others with better math skills than mine.

 

[archited]

Check out the video 12 or 13 posts ago and you can clearly see the 8 actuators (4 front and 4 aft) for the Transpod vehicle -- 4 on lower tracks and 4 on upper tracks. The vacuum is relative too -- you can get 100 Pascals at the leading edge of the vehicle but that does not mean that they require that lack of density throughout the entire tube in the head direction -- that is the part that is misleading.

 

[ChazYEG]

To quote Mick Jagger, "Hey you, get off of my cloud". You're not much good at fixing anything with your eristic comments.

At least I'm legit. But that's not a conversation for here. I still have manners.

 

[archited]

Neither was your previous editing of my comments an effort suitable for here -- so you may have manners, but not many in my books.

 

[ChazYEG]

Neither was your previous editing of my comments an effort suitable for here -- so you may have manners, but not many in my books.

Do you really want to go down this?

In any case, I was referring to the Hyperloop technology being legit, but if you feel like it's applicable to you, I won't dispute it.

 

[archited]

"There are a few of us who are deranged and believe in the tooth fairy" is not personal -- you must be kidding!!! As I said before on our last phone call -- do your best -- you are the least imposing person that I have ever come across!

 

[archited]

You might think that you are witty and funny -- you are a legend in your own mind!

 

[kcantor]

Check out the video 12 or 13 posts ago and you can clearly see the 8 actuators (4 front and 4 aft) for the Transpod vehicle -- 4 on lower tracks and 4 on upper tracks. The vacuum is relative too -- you can get 100 Pascals at the leading edge of the vehicle but that does not mean that they require that lack of density throughout the entire tube in the head direction -- that is the part that is misleading.

aahhh... you were referring to the "next generation hyperloop", not the one that has actually been tested - sort of - or yet proposed anywhere - at least that i'm aware of.

the second generation plasma powered "think of it like an octopus" fluxjet.