[Rainforest]

The 'LRT-only' crowd don't exist.

Perhaps there is no 'LRT-only' crowd in its pure form, but there exists a modern bias against serving long-range trips properly. Some people are so fond of transit with glorified local stops, that they dismiss all concerns regarding the need of trunk routes that connect the whole city together.

 

[Steve X]

Perhaps there is no 'LRT-only' crowd in its pure form, but there exists a modern bias against serving long-range trips properly. Some people are so fond of transit with glorified local stops, that they dismiss all concerns regarding the need of trunk routes that connect the whole city together.

The spacing on the EELRT isn't that bad. It could be a little more spaced out. 600-750m is pretty good. This is about the spacing on Line 1 and 2 in the inner part of town. What the LRT really need is a good connection to both Guildwood GO and Eglinton GO stations along with better fare integration. GO needs to run more frequent up to 10 minutes instead of the planned 15 min. This would put any downtown bounded trips from the east end of Scarborough to 45-60 min. I do agree there should be more grade separation at congested spots.

The old fashion TTC network only grade separated option will place stations 1-2 km apart cause they claim 500m make a glorified streetcar line. That adds 15 min to any downtown trip while continuing to fill the road with unreliable buses as stations are too far apart for most people. If the LSE didn't exist, it would make more sense to build a grade separated line instead of the at grade LRT.

Like I previously said, the lane that will be removed is for buses. In peak hours, it can't be used as a through lane without having to change lanes every one in a while when a bus is loading at a stop. The LRT totally justifies removing this lane as bus traffic will be removed from the general traffic. It will also make streets safer to cross with 4 lanes instead of 6.

The current design for the EELRT is nowhere near perfect, a lot more efforts could be spent to make it even better. Even the crosstown should have included a grade separation at Victoria Park and Pharmacy as those intersections are way too close together. That doesn't mean they should grade separate the entire line.

 

[Rainforest]

The spacing on the EELRT isn't that bad. It could be a little more spaced out. 600-750m is pretty good. This is about the spacing on Line 1 and 2 in the inner part of town. What the LRT really need is a good connection to both Guildwood GO and Eglinton GO stations along with better fare integration. GO needs to run more frequent up to 10 minutes instead of the planned 15 min. This would put any downtown bounded trips from the east end of Scarborough to 45-60 min. I do agree there should be more grade separation at congested spots.

The old fashion TTC network only grade separated option will place stations 1-2 km apart cause they claim 500m make a glorified streetcar line. That adds 15 min to any downtown trip while continuing to fill the road with unreliable buses as stations are too far apart for most people. If the LSE didn't exist, it would make more sense to build a grade separated line instead of the at grade LRT.

Like I previously said, the lane that will be removed is for buses. In peak hours, it can't be used as a through lane without having to change lanes every one in a while when a bus is loading at a stop. The LRT totally justifies removing this lane as bus traffic will be removed from the general traffic. It will also make streets safer to cross with 4 lanes instead of 6.

The current design for the EELRT is nowhere near perfect, a lot more efforts could be spent to make it even better. Even the crosstown should have included a grade separation at Victoria Park and Pharmacy as those intersections are way too close together. That doesn't mean they should grade separate the entire line.

EELRT is designed well. I have no concerns about its design, don't see a point in making it entirely grade-separated, and don't think losing 2 lanes of traffic is a problem in this case (as 2 lanes each way will remain in place).

My concern is of more general nature, as some transit activists refuse to see the value of SSE, or the value of supporting long-range trips overall. Perhaps another thread would be more suitable for that discussion, but I'm not sure which thread.

 

[Steve X]

EELRT is designed well. I have no concerns about its design, don't see a point in making it entirely grade-separated, and don't think losing 2 lanes of traffic is a problem in this case (as 2 lanes each way will remain in place).

My concern is of more general nature, as some transit activists refuse to see the value of SSE, or the value of supporting long-range trips overall. Perhaps another thread would be more suitable for that discussion, but I'm not sure which thread.

The SSE shouldn't even be thrown into consideration. It serves a totally different part of Scarborough. If you ask those who live north of the SSE, they'll more likely think their line is the only one needed and vice versa for the potential EELRT riders.

 

[Leo_Chan]

The SSE shouldn't even be thrown into consideration. It serves a totally different part of Scarborough. If you ask those who live north of the SSE, they'll more likely think their line is the only one needed and vice versa for the potential EELRT riders.

How do people generally think about transit improvements? Do they think in the scope of their Province, their Region, their City, their Borough, their Neighbourhood, their Street, or their House? How should people think about transit and what is the (sad) reality?

 

[Neutrino]

How do people generally think about transit improvements? Do they think in the scope of their Province, their Region, their City, their Borough, their Neighbourhood, their Street, or their House? How should people think about transit and what is the (sad) reality?

Depends where they travel and which modes they use , there's no universal answer obviously

 

[Hopkins123]

The spacing on the EELRT isn't that bad. It could be a little more spaced out. 600-750m is pretty good. This is about the spacing on Line 1 and 2 in the inner part of town. What the LRT really need is a good connection to both Guildwood GO and Eglinton GO stations along with better fare integration. GO needs to run more frequent up to 10 minutes instead of the planned 15 min. This would put any downtown bounded trips from the east end of Scarborough to 45-60 min. I do agree there should be more grade separation at congested spots.

The old fashion TTC network only grade separated option will place stations 1-2 km apart cause they claim 500m make a glorified streetcar line. That adds 15 min to any downtown trip while continuing to fill the road with unreliable buses as stations are too far apart for most people. If the LSE didn't exist, it would make more sense to build a grade separated line instead of the at grade LRT.

Like I previously said, the lane that will be removed is for buses. In peak hours, it can't be used as a through lane without having to change lanes every one in a while when a bus is loading at a stop. The LRT totally justifies removing this lane as bus traffic will be removed from the general traffic. It will also make streets safer to cross with 4 lanes instead of 6.

The current design for the EELRT is nowhere near perfect, a lot more efforts could be spent to make it even better. Even the crosstown should have included a grade separation at Victoria Park and Pharmacy as those intersections are way too close together. That doesn't mean they should grade separate the entire line.

The only essential stops are Brimley-Danforth, Eglinton GO, Markham Rd, Scarborough Golf Club, Guildwood GO, Galloway, Kingston/Morningside, Ellesmere/Monringside, UTS Campus. If built with that number of stops conceivably grade-separating the line most or all the way becomes feasible again.

 

[Streety McCarface]

The spacing on the EELRT isn't that bad. It could be a little more spaced out. 600-750m is pretty good. This is about the spacing on Line 1 and 2 in the inner part of town. What the LRT really need is a good connection to both Guildwood GO and Eglinton GO stations along with better fare integration. GO needs to run more frequent up to 10 minutes instead of the planned 15 min. This would put any downtown bounded trips from the east end of Scarborough to 45-60 min. I do agree there should be more grade separation at congested spots.

The old fashion TTC network only grade separated option will place stations 1-2 km apart cause they claim 500m make a glorified streetcar line. That adds 15 min to any downtown trip while continuing to fill the road with unreliable buses as stations are too far apart for most people. If the LSE didn't exist, it would make more sense to build a grade separated line instead of the at grade LRT.

Like I previously said, the lane that will be removed is for buses. In peak hours, it can't be used as a through lane without having to change lanes every one in a while when a bus is loading at a stop. The LRT totally justifies removing this lane as bus traffic will be removed from the general traffic. It will also make streets safer to cross with 4 lanes instead of 6.

The current design for the EELRT is nowhere near perfect, a lot more efforts could be spent to make it even better. Even the crosstown should have included a grade separation at Victoria Park and Pharmacy as those intersections are way too close together. That doesn't mean they should grade separate the entire line.

The design of Eglinton East makes sense given the geography and transit patterns of the area. It's similar to Finch West's design and I think that's the best for these areas. This design should also eventually be replicated on Jane St and the waterfront area. However, people tend to have problems with Eglinton West, Sheppard East, and the Eglinton crosstown, because there are just way too many stations along all those lines, and some corridors just aren't suited for the light rail that's being proposed in other areas of the city.

 

[robmausser]

The design of Eglinton East makes sense given the geography and transit patterns of the area. It's similar to Finch West's design and I think that's the best for these areas. This design should also eventually be replicated on Jane St and the waterfront area. However, people tend to have problems with Eglinton West, Sheppard East, and the Eglinton crosstown, because there are just way too many stations along all those lines, and some corridors just aren't suited for the light rail that's being proposed in other areas of the city.

I agree with the first point and Sheppard East, but I think that Eglinton West in its Option 4 plan and the Crosstown tunneled section do fit the area properly. Its only if option 1 was chosen on Eglinton West that I feel it would be a mistake.

The only issue is that with the "rapid transit" style of LRT with tunnelled sections and 1km+ spaced stations in the west, and the streetcar-like section from Laird to Malvern, there might be difficulty keeping service levels running in a way that severe bunching etc doesnt happen.

We will have a single transit line with rapid style in the west and a slower multi stop community style LRT in the east. I foresee a service frequency challenge.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I agree with the first point and Sheppard East, but I think that Eglinton West in its Option 4 plan and the Crosstown tunneled section do fit the area properly. Its only if option 1 was chosen on Eglinton West that I feel it would be a mistake.

The only issue is that with the "rapid transit" style of LRT with tunnelled sections and 1km+ spaced stations in the west, and the streetcar-like section from Laird to Malvern, there might be difficulty keeping service levels running in a way that severe bunching etc doesnt happen.

We will have a single transit line with rapid style in the west and a slower multi stop community style LRT in the east. I foresee a service frequency challenge.

Option 4 was always the best of both worlds, choosing option 1 would be a horrible mistake, the area is just too busy for surface level Light Rail.

I'm wondering of Eglinton East can be incorporated into the 502/503 at a future date, perhaps a full on Kingston Road Light Rail line. Doubt ridership would be high enough to justify it however, and there's also the issue of track gauges.

 

[JSF-1]

I'm wondering of Eglinton East can be incorporated into the 502/503 at a future date, perhaps a full on Kingston Road Light Rail line. Doubt ridership would be high enough to justify it however, and there's also the issue of track gauges.

Resurrect the old Scarboro Interurban. Makes me wonder how different Scarborough would be if we didn't shut it down and bustitute it back in the 20's.

 

[Rainforest]

I'm wondering of Eglinton East can be incorporated into the 502/503 at a future date, perhaps a full on Kingston Road Light Rail line. Doubt ridership would be high enough to justify it however, and there's also the issue of track gauges.

The problem with 502/503 is that they run in mixed traffic, and will continue to do so (Queen will not be widened to 4+2). That may be OK for short/medium length trips, but will kill both reliability and speed if the service is stretched from Yonge all the way to Morningside.

EELRT should retain at least the street-median level of separation from general traffic en route to the subway.

Regarding the 502/503, it would make sense to shorten them, and feed into the Queen/Broadview station of Ontario Line once the latter opens. The 501 will continue to run through into downtown, but the 502 will operate east of the Queen/Broadview station only. Once that's done, it might be sensible to extend the eastern end of 502 further up Kingston Rd, possibly connecting to EELRT at Kingston/Eglinton.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't think the cost of full grade-separation is warranted for EELRT. Riders of the area will have access to two other trunk routes: SSE, and Lakeshore East GO. Plus, most of EELRT trips will be from some point in the middle to either Kennedy Stn or UTSC; few will travel all the way from UTSC to Kennedy on the LRT, since a trip using Ellesmere bus and then the subway will actually be faster.

Regarding the stop spacing: I think it will depend on whether TTC is planning to run some buses to Kennedy Stn via Eglinton anyway.

The existing buses 86 and 116 serve a few areas that won't be reached by EELRT:
- Morningside north of UTSC (116C)
- Morningside south of Lawrence, and Guildwood Parkway (116A,C)
- Kingston Rd north of Lawrence, plus Meadowvale and the Zoo (86A,B,C)
- Coronation Dr (86D)
- Canmore Blvd (116A)

For each of the above sections, there will be basically 3 choices:
a) Run the bus to EELRT, force a transfer there
b) Run the bus all the way to Kennedy Stn via Eglinton
c) Run the bus to subway, but use a new/shorter route; for example via Ellesmere to STC

If Option (b) gets chosen for some of the branches, then the bus service parallel to EELRT will be present anyway, and then the number of EELRT stops may be reduced.

 

[nfitz]

The problem with 502/503 is that they run in mixed traffic, and will continue to do so (Queen will not be widened to 4+2). That may be OK for short/medium length trips, but will kill both reliability and speed if the service is stretched from Yonge all the way to Morningside.

Queen won't be widened, but they improved this on King without widening the road.

Another option is not running 502/503 on Kingston Road at all, but keep going down Eastern/Lakeshore/Commissioners/Cherry/Queens Quay and into Union Station or to the Exhibtion.

(though I don't believe this will happen)

 

[drum118]

Queen won't be widened, but they improved this on King without widening the road.

Another option is not running 502/503 on Kingston Road at all, but keep going down Eastern/Lakeshore/Commissioners/Cherry/Queens Quay and into Union Station or to the Exhibtion.

(though I don't believe this will happen)

That Idea was in the Master Waterfront Transit Plan in 2004, with the line running on the Lakeshore. It was approved by TTC commission and Council and sent to the province for approval. The Government requested to break the EA down into 3 plans in place of one. At this time unknown to the team until 2008, TTC removed the Lake Shore Line from the Master Plan. Its a missing line that is needed yesterday along with the other lines.