[Amare]

Hydro One is planning to invest $53.5 million to upgrade an existing transmission line and operate it at a higher voltage which is part of an overall Etobicoke Greenway Project. The plan will also bring some new green space along the corridor connecting Richview and Manby Transformer Stations. The project is due to be complete by 2026.

Hydro One

Hydro One is Canada’s largest electricity transmission and distribution service provider. We transmit and distribute electricity across Ontario, home to 38 per cent of Canada’s population

www.hydroone.com

The project consists of:

• Removing towers and wires on the east side of the corridor
• Installing new towers and wires that can carry a voltage of 230 kV
• Connecting the new line to Richview TS and Manby TS, which will require work within the stations
• Preparing the area for construction and the future energizing of the line by assessing obstructions and trimming or removing vegetation
• 4.5 km of trails with meadows, pollinator plantings, trail amenities and five frequently mown spaces for recreational activities

A related RFP for Transmission Line Satellite Monitoring Service has been issued as well: https://nationtalk.ca/tender/rfp-tr...ite-monitoring-service-for-etobicoke-greenway

Here are some pictures i'm bringing forward from their various reports on the project:

 

[junctionist]

These hydro corridors seem like such a waste of land. They were justifiable when these areas were low-density greenfield suburbs. But now, they’re in the middle of a large metropolitan area. Bury the wires and build mixed-use avenues with LRTs and parks. We don’t have to pave over the Greenbelt.

 

[Northern Light]

Hydro One is planning to invest $53.5 million to upgrade an existing transmission line and operate it at a higher voltage which is part of an overall Etobicoke Greenway Project. The plan will also bring some new green space along the corridor connecting Richview and Manby Transformer Stations. The project is due to be complete by 2026.

Hydro One

Hydro One is Canada’s largest electricity transmission and distribution service provider. We transmit and distribute electricity across Ontario, home to 38 per cent of Canada’s population

www.hydroone.com

The project consists of:

• Removing towers and wires on the east side of the corridor
• Installing new towers and wires that can carry a voltage of 230 kV
• Connecting the new line to Richview TS and Manby TS, which will require work within the stations
• Preparing the area for construction and the future energizing of the line by assessing obstructions and trimming or removing vegetation
• 4.5 km of trails with meadows, pollinator plantings, trail amenities and five frequently mown spaces for recreational activities

A related RFP for Transmission Line Satellite Monitoring Service has been issued as well: https://nationtalk.ca/tender/rfp-tr...ite-monitoring-service-for-etobicoke-greenway

Here are some pictures i'm bringing forward from their various reports on the project:

View attachment 505030

View attachment 505031

View attachment 505032
View attachment 505033
View attachment 505034
View attachment 505035

Discussion on this has been in process for a bit, I reported on Councillor Holyday's motion in favour of this project last year:

Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

Some modest improvements in progress: cant wait for cars to honk at me that im going the wrong way on a one way street!

urbantoronto.ca

 

[Northern Light]

Bury the wires

Can be done, for sure, though for high voltage it certainly isn't cheap. Its very hard to price as I don't think Hydro One has done such a project in recent years, but looking at other jurisdictions, I'd peg it at ~10M per km, per line.

I should add here, these corridors also typically have both oil and natural gas pipelines in them too; those are buried.

and build mixed-use avenues with LRTs

Buildings over high voltage, long-distance transmission lines? Not likely. I don't know how you would repair the lines with buildings over the top. Under the road? Sure, for a single line, replacing what we have in most larger corridors in Toronto that way, probably not.

The best candidate would probably the mid-town corridor along the CP line, I think space could be found in the ROW and/or adjacent park lands.

and parks.

That is the intent of this proposal, and the meadoway; and you'll see something similar for other corridors as well. Though as long as the wires are above ground, the parks will be mostly tree-less.

We don’t have to pave over the Greenbelt.

We don't have to pave over the greenbelt anyway. There's already tens of thousands of acres of land designated for development (some of which should not be, but I digress); The City of Toronto alone has 70,000 units of approved, but not yet built housing.

 

[Towered]

Good opportunity to build a bike path!

 

[crs1026]

I'm a little surprised that with all the current and planned development at Six Points, there is no effort to bury the lines at least to north of Dundas, possibly to Bloor. It would definitely improve the built form if there were no Hydro corridor visible from all those balconies.

There is no need to bury north of that. And the Greenway will be a valuable park. I agree that it can add cycling connectivity in Etobicoke, which is badly needed.

As to adding density.... no need to do anything that encroaches on the power lines. The surrounding suburban areas are ripe for densification through garden suites, multiple unit homes etc. Heck, people are already building McMansions in the area.... just need a policy that says, if you are going to build 4500 sq feet structures, make them triplexes and not SFH's. Lot sizes are substantial and one can add much density and still have nice backyard areas, wide streets etc.

- Paul

 

[junctionist]

Can be done, for sure, though for high voltage it certainly isn't cheap. Its very hard to price as I don't think Hydro One has done such a project in recent years, but looking at other jurisdictions, I'd peg it at ~10M per km, per line.

I should add here, these corridors also typically have both oil and natural gas pipelines in them too; those are buried.



Buildings over high voltage, long-distance transmission lines? Not likely. I don't know how you would repair the lines with buildings over the top. Under the road? Sure, for a single line, replacing what we have in most larger corridors in Toronto that way, probably not.

The best candidate would probably the mid-town corridor along the CP line, I think space could be found in the ROW and/or adjacent park lands.



That is the intent of this proposal, and the meadoway; and you'll see something similar for other corridors as well. Though as long as the wires are above ground, the parks will be mostly tree-less.



We don't have to pave over the greenbelt anyway. There's already tens of thousands of acres of land designated for development (some of which should not be, but I digress); The City of Toronto alone has 70,000 units of approved, but not yet built housing.

You put the wires into one or more tunnels, allowing them to be maintained by accessing the tunnel. The road goes on top of the tunnel, and mixed-use buildings go on the sides of the road. Other utilities can use the same approach. The province wants to build housing, so they should be considering these badly underutilized lands instead of compromising the Greenbelt. These kinds of interventions could make numerous car-dependent suburban neighbourhoods more walkable and more sustainable.

 

[Northern Light]

You put the wires into one or more tunnels, allowing them to be maintained by accessing the tunnel. The road goes on top of the tunnel, and mixed-use buildings go on the sides of the road. Other utilities can use the same approach. The province wants to build housing, so they should be considering these badly underutilized lands instead of compromising the Greenbelt. These kinds of interventions could make numerous car-dependent suburban neighbourhoods more walkable and more sustainable.

Right; but again, we don't need to touch the Greenbelt either way.

Second, I still haven't heard of putting High Voltage under buildings. Its probably been done somewhere, but off the top of my head, where I'm aware of utilities having buried such, its either under roads, or shallow-trenched in corridors much like the ones we have now, with not much on top.

There is definitely no precedent for put multiple HV cables in a tunnel with a Nat. Gas pipeline and an Oil pipeline.

I'm not saying we couldn't bury some of these; but the benefit, other than reduced risk in ice storms would likely be aesthetic, and permitting some additional tree planting.

Full tunnels (plural) would cost almost the same as subways, and there is just no way I see that happening.

Its not on.

 

[junctionist]

Right; but again, we don't need to touch the Greenbelt either way.

Second, I still haven't heard of putting High Voltage under buildings. Its probably been done somewhere, but off the top of my head, where I'm aware of utilities having buried such, its either under roads, or shallow-trenched in corridors much like the ones we have now, with not much on top.

There is definitely no precedent for put multiple HV cables in a tunnel with a Nat. Gas pipeline and an Oil pipeline.

I'm not saying we couldn't bury some of these; but the benefit, other than reduced risk in ice storms would likely be aesthetic, and permitting some additional tree planting.

Full tunnels (plural) would cost almost the same as subways, and there is just no way I see that happening.

Its not on.

The tunnels would go under the public infrastructure, e.g. the roadway with the LRT in the middle. You would likely need separate tunnels for electricity versus oil and gas. The benefit of burying is being able to redevelop the land, which can be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[Northern Light]

The tunnels would go under the public infrastructure, e.g. the roadway with the LRT in the middle.

Ok.....

You would likely need separate tunnels for electricity versus oil and gas.

That's a given, I'm not entirely sure about running 3 high voltage lines (what's there now) in a single space, there are technical issues.

But I'll leave that discussion to those with greater expertise.

The benefit of burying is being able to redevelop the land, which can be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

I got you; what I'm saying is that it will not happen here.

The blue line is the Hydro One Corridor, assuming they were willing to be parted with it (remember they are 50% privately owned, and a for-profit business), that blue line is 105M wide.

The total distance between the two existing roads on either side is only 214M.

An ROW large enough to allow for one lane in each direction, a left-hand turn lane at intersections and an LRT, plus sidewalks commensurate with such a street would be at least 30M.

If you remove that, on centre, from the existing block you have 2 parcels each ~35M deep, that's generally not enough for tall buildings (need 40M), but it certainly can't work backing onto all of those single family homes, so you're going to have to buy them all out, you're talking 30 parcels or so in that block north of Bloor at a probable buy out value of 50M+; the Hydro One lands wouldn't be worth any less, so now you're at 100M, of which the gov't maybe be able to recoup 25M as a shareholder in Hydro One.

Once you've bought out the homes, you still have problem of roads now space less than 95M apart, with major buildings on them.

That just would be a non-starter w/the City. Those are very short blocks, particularly if you have large buildings on them.

Then there's the cost of burying the lines, that, and relocating existing pipelines, that's an excruciating EA, but it can't be by-passed.

You're looking at 15M for that one block minimum.

The cost of the road and the LRT on top...........

To be blunt, its borderline non-feasible, politically tenuous and wouldn't make the government much money if any at all.

I totally sympathize with your point here, the facts on the ground just don't support that choice done that way.

That doesn't mean you can't bury the wires; it just means you can't do that in order to support a new major corridor with tall buildings in a way that makes any economic sense.

Here, if you buried the wires, your practical choices would be park, or LRT/Park, but you're not really adding buildings.

 

[ericmacm]

You put the wires into one or more tunnels, allowing them to be maintained by accessing the tunnel. The road goes on top of the tunnel, and mixed-use buildings go on the sides of the road. Other utilities can use the same approach. The province wants to build housing, so they should be considering these badly underutilized lands instead of compromising the Greenbelt. These kinds of interventions could make numerous car-dependent suburban neighbourhoods more walkable and more sustainable.

There is nothing “underutilized” about utility corridors. They carry necessary infrastructure that allows us to live our lives. Having reliable access to these services should not be taken for granted.

Burial of high-voltage is very expensive and only works well in very specific circumstances. It doesn’t make the infrastructure immune to outages, you absolutely cannot build structures on top of it (like pretty much any other utility anywhere), and most importantly, the costs of such an endeavour are always passed along to the consumer. Squeezing use out of these relatively small corridors is chasing hugely diminishing returns.

If finding new land is that big of a concern, buying up, knocking down, and redeveloping entire single family neighbourhoods is more financially feasible, more space efficient, and will take less time/money to do.

 

[crs1026]

If finding new land is that big of a concern, buying up, knocking down, and redeveloping entire single family neighbourhoods is more financially feasible, more space efficient, and will take less time/money to do.

And this particular corridor has oodles of low density suburban areas adjacent to it.

- Paul

 

[swigg]

It'd be great if it also continued north east into north etobicoke.

 

[junctionist]

Ok.....



That's a given, I'm not entirely sure about running 3 high voltage lines (what's there now) in a single space, there are technical issues.

But I'll leave that discussion to those with greater expertise.



I got you; what I'm saying is that it will not happen here.

View attachment 505134


The blue line is the Hydro One Corridor, assuming they were willing to be parted with it (remember they are 50% privately owned, and a for-profit business), that blue line is 105M wide.

The total distance between the two existing roads on either side is only 214M.

An ROW large enough to allow for one lane in each direction, a left-hand turn lane at intersections and an LRT, plus sidewalks commensurate with such a street would be at least 30M.

If you remove that, on centre, from the existing block you have 2 parcels each ~35M deep, that's generally not enough for tall buildings (need 40M), but it certainly can't work backing onto all of those single family homes, so you're going to have to buy them all out, you're talking 30 parcels or so in that block north of Bloor at a probable buy out value of 50M+; the Hydro One lands wouldn't be worth any less, so now you're at 100M, of which the gov't maybe be able to recoup 25M as a shareholder in Hydro One.

Once you've bought out the homes, you still have problem of roads now space less than 95M apart, with major buildings on them.

That just would be a non-starter w/the City. Those are very short blocks, particularly if you have large buildings on them.

Then there's the cost of burying the lines, that, and relocating existing pipelines, that's an excruciating EA, but it can't be by-passed.

You're looking at 15M for that one block minimum.

The cost of the road and the LRT on top...........

To be blunt, its borderline non-feasible, politically tenuous and wouldn't make the government much money if any at all.

I totally sympathize with your point here, the facts on the ground just don't support that choice done that way.

That doesn't mean you can't bury the wires; it just means you can't do that in order to support a new major corridor with tall buildings in a way that makes any economic sense.

Here, if you buried the wires, your practical choices would be park, or LRT/Park, but you're not really adding buildings.

Fair points. Upon closer analysis, it seems that it probably wouldn't be financially feasible to do what I suggested for the whole corridor. But perhaps it could still happen in some limited areas with more favourable conditions (e.g. burying a stretch of the corridor where the neighbouring properties allow for large-scale development to happen on both sides of the corridor).