sharkey
New Member
Nice??? For the same or a bit more money, you can get much better with indoor parking, concierge, storage lockers, amenities, etc.
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- Thread starter riley
- Start date
catcher_of_cats
Active Member
I wonder what the legal ramifications are concerning the purchase of these units. If a buyer goes to their bank and asks for / and receives a residential mortgage (for this commercial property), will the buyer be protected when things turn south for those involved? Will the city allow the residential conversion as is, or will the buyers or developer get burned? Also, will the city charge commercial tax rates or are these units insurable since they are residences in a commercial structure? Many questions require answering for those that bought; hopefully they retain good real estate lawyers.
It will be interesting to watch as this unfolds.
It will be interesting to watch as this unfolds.
dylwalters
New Member
When we rescinded, the Sales team made no attempt to explain, didn't acknowledge the issue. They've been silent. Maybe they know something we don't, but they have been quite suspicious. And I'm not going to take my chances. Although I agree, they are great units - in a nice place...if it were legal?
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Sharkey,
I know it sounds complicated, but you can respond to multiple posts using only one yourself. Four in a row is ridiculous.
I know it sounds complicated, but you can respond to multiple posts using only one yourself. Four in a row is ridiculous.
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Artee
Guest
I got a letter today from TorontoLOfts from the developer. They wrote that they're getting alot of confused questions from the purchasers and theyre writing to set me straight! The city views the buildign as commercial even though its zoned for residential too. So I cant live there unless I apply to the city to get residential OK'd. That would cost me $$$ like 6G to the city. FOR WHAT?!!!! But all condo's pass these charges to the buyer when your lawyer gives them the money. Look at the small print. I guess I'd apply to city - I promise. Anyway they're giving me a week to decide if I want in even though I'm past recision period. Cool.
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Artee
Guest
pickleberry
New Member
The plot thickens once more...
I understand what you're saying about development costs being passed onto the buyer in the end, so it makes little difference.
But the burning question for me is why didn't the developer submit all of the paperwork while the building work was going on? It would raise costs but it would have been a nice clean sale - not the marketing mess they have on their hands now.
Perhaps they know of a compelling reason not to?
Bottom line is that the owner has to apply to the city for residential status - leaving you at their mercy. Nothing is ever guaranteed.
For that reason, I would be out.
I don't suppose TorontoLOFTS set anything straight regarding commercial v. residential taxes?
monty76
New Member
It's all a bit fishy. Why wouldnt they tell purchasers about needing to apply for residential status before they purchase the unit - when most purchasers are obviously buying the units to live in. This is a big added expense, 6K, you would think it would be important enough to mention.
I definetly recommend applying for residential status and contacting the city before you actually make your decision. That way there is no possibility of getting stuck with a unit that you cant live in.
Im curious to know what else the letter said, would you be able to provide a scan?
pickleberry
New Member
All very amateurish on behalf of the developer IMO. Did they really think people would not notice this far-from-minor detail? Or did they think the market is so demanding that people would snap it up regardless?
We are now seeing some urgent back-pedalling it would seem.
I don't know much about the developer but I have always had a positive opinion of Edwin and his company. I am hoping he won't do anything to damage his reputation here.
I would also like to see a scan if poss.
Solaris
Senior Member
Get OUT now ... while you can
Artee ... don't take this chance even if you have the $6K to spare, the pain and hassle is not worth your while ... developers should be making money off you because they would go through the hassle of the municipal approval process (and the risk if it doesn't get approved) .... YOU SHOULDN'T take that risk as a individual purchaser
If you want a HARD loft ... there are plenty on the market, take you time and look elsewhere .... that's my advise to purchasers on this project
Artee ... don't take this chance even if you have the $6K to spare, the pain and hassle is not worth your while ... developers should be making money off you because they would go through the hassle of the municipal approval process (and the risk if it doesn't get approved) .... YOU SHOULDN'T take that risk as a individual purchaser
If you want a HARD loft ... there are plenty on the market, take you time and look elsewhere .... that's my advise to purchasers on this project
Brahmos
New Member
I can't believe Sharky was right
So here's the story - the developer effed-up. They never tried to register the building as residential. All permits, condo docs, site planning, etc., was set for commercial. I've spoken to Councilor Perks and the director of building permits for the S.W.region, and both assured me it would be a lengthy and costly process.
It takes more than an application for residential status - there are site planning approvals, development charges, park levies, educational development levies, etc, and all must be done BEFORE you move in. The building permit director was stern when he said they would be keeping a watchful eye on this property and anyone trying to live in it.
So what does this add up to? Tenants spending thousands of dollars and waiting months (if not years) to move in to their unit. And with people like Sharky appealing every approval, I have a feeling this project will drag on a long time. I have no choice but to rescind as well, which is a shame since this could be a beautiful residential building.
Shame on Plazacorp for not taking the proper actions along the way, or even mentioning this issue whatsoever in the condo documentation.
So here's the story - the developer effed-up. They never tried to register the building as residential. All permits, condo docs, site planning, etc., was set for commercial. I've spoken to Councilor Perks and the director of building permits for the S.W.region, and both assured me it would be a lengthy and costly process.
It takes more than an application for residential status - there are site planning approvals, development charges, park levies, educational development levies, etc, and all must be done BEFORE you move in. The building permit director was stern when he said they would be keeping a watchful eye on this property and anyone trying to live in it.
So what does this add up to? Tenants spending thousands of dollars and waiting months (if not years) to move in to their unit. And with people like Sharky appealing every approval, I have a feeling this project will drag on a long time. I have no choice but to rescind as well, which is a shame since this could be a beautiful residential building.
Shame on Plazacorp for not taking the proper actions along the way, or even mentioning this issue whatsoever in the condo documentation.
Brahmos
New Member
taxes were set at approx 1% which is the norm for residential. Commercial would have been 4x as much.
cabbagetowner
Active Member
unless they're selling at a huge discount to compensate for the hassle i would take a pass at this. this is not a minor technical issue. you can bet if there was any way the developer could have zoned for res they would have. if the developer couldn't do it with their expertise and resources i'm not sure many buyers would have better luck.
sit this one out, wait and watch, you can always jump back in when things get sorted. the re market is no longer a rampaging bull it once was. who knows 6 months from now, the issues could get sorted and the units could be even cheaper.
i feel sorry for the people who've bought in already based on their misrepresentations.
sit this one out, wait and watch, you can always jump back in when things get sorted. the re market is no longer a rampaging bull it once was. who knows 6 months from now, the issues could get sorted and the units could be even cheaper.
i feel sorry for the people who've bought in already based on their misrepresentations.
monty76
New Member
Hmm.. any updates?
I wonder if the Tannery had any of these problems, it was a pretty similar project and both exclusively represented by Toronto Lofts Inc. (No Agents)
I wonder if the Tannery had any of these problems, it was a pretty similar project and both exclusively represented by Toronto Lofts Inc. (No Agents)
Brahmos
New Member
The long and short of the letter from FFL:
"Thank you for purchasing a loft from Feather Factory Lofts Inc. Many purchasers have been asking for
clarification about the zoning of the building and permitted uses of their lofts. In response we have drafted
this letter with the help of the City and we hope this is helpful to you.
The Property is zoned MCR. The City allows a wide range of commercial and residential uses for this
zoning. However, the building is currently classified as a commercial building which means that you must
currently use your loft exclusively for commercial purposes as described in The Disclosure Statement that
has been provided to you. It contains certain provisions regarding the permitted uses of your loft (see
Paragraphs 4.3, 6.1 and 21.1 of the Disclosure Statement). Paragraph 5.1 (a) of the Condominium’s
registered Declaration (which was also provided to you with the Condominium Documents) also makes
reference to this.
Should you want to use your loft for residential purposes, you must apply and obtain a building permit,
from the City of Toronto, for the proposed change of use prior to commencing such residential use. Your
application would involve payment of application fees, the obtaining of planning approval(s), an
application for a building permit for a change of use and the payment of a number of levies and charges,
including but not limited to Development Charges, Educational Development Charges and Park Levies.
Also, the City currently does not issue street permit parking for commercial buildings or lofts. These
permits are reserved for residential users."
"Thank you for purchasing a loft from Feather Factory Lofts Inc. Many purchasers have been asking for
clarification about the zoning of the building and permitted uses of their lofts. In response we have drafted
this letter with the help of the City and we hope this is helpful to you.
The Property is zoned MCR. The City allows a wide range of commercial and residential uses for this
zoning. However, the building is currently classified as a commercial building which means that you must
currently use your loft exclusively for commercial purposes as described in The Disclosure Statement that
has been provided to you. It contains certain provisions regarding the permitted uses of your loft (see
Paragraphs 4.3, 6.1 and 21.1 of the Disclosure Statement). Paragraph 5.1 (a) of the Condominium’s
registered Declaration (which was also provided to you with the Condominium Documents) also makes
reference to this.
Should you want to use your loft for residential purposes, you must apply and obtain a building permit,
from the City of Toronto, for the proposed change of use prior to commencing such residential use. Your
application would involve payment of application fees, the obtaining of planning approval(s), an
application for a building permit for a change of use and the payment of a number of levies and charges,
including but not limited to Development Charges, Educational Development Charges and Park Levies.
Also, the City currently does not issue street permit parking for commercial buildings or lofts. These
permits are reserved for residential users."