[afransen]

Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.

People hate it when it becomes an excuse to make your 3 minute wait to cross an intersection a 6 minute wait because you have to wait for a second cycle.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hopefully this shit show will benefit the Eglinton roll out in 2027.

 

[Steve X]

Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.

The ionic thing is this city did install a two stage crossing at Eglinton and Solane. So they know it exists.

I don’t know how long it will take for them to install it for every intersection and how difficult it is to install it for crossings without a station platform. First, they’ll have to acknowledge that they need a two stage crossing which itself is a hurdle.

 

[reaperexpress]

I don't think they even know how transit signal priority works in Toronto like @reaperexpress , much less elsewhere in North America, the Americas, Europe, or Asia...

Finch West Line 6 LRT

Who runs this city’s mundane traffic signals, Metrolinx or City Hall? I hope you can understand the confusion regarding who is responsible for the lack of strong active signal priority, (emphasis mine): "Supplementary Report: Congestion Management Plan - 2025 Update Date: April 22, 2025...

urbantoronto.ca

Yeah that was my conclusion as well so I wrote this blog post and sent a link to it to the TTC board:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress...checking-the-ttc-board-about-signal-priority/

 

[afransen]

Yeah that was my conclusion as well so I wrote this blog post and sent a link to it to the TTC board:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress...checking-the-ttc-board-about-signal-priority/

The board meeting was shameful. It suggests that the board needs to invite others to give outside perspectives on how TSP could be used to improve service reliability and speed.

 

[futurebound]

Crossposting from the GO transit thread:

Around 20 minutes to get from Highway 407 (3rd column) to Humber College (4th column). So, yes. Faster to go up to Highway 407 from Finch West and take this bus to Humber College than to take Line 6.

 

[fungus_eater]

Just convert it to BRT and run articulated buses on the finch tracks instead of LRV vehicles, so that way they dont need to follow the BS streetcar rules such as needing to slow down at intersections. The buses can also accelerate faster than the LRVs. These changes will make the line go faster compared to now. 3 billion dollars for a BRT line sounds expensive but the TTC can probably recoup some of the cost by selling all their Citradis Spirits cheaply back to alstom and then buy some buses to run the BRT. Lets make lemonade and be done with this.

 

[Steve X]

Just convert it to BRT and run articulated buses on the finch tracks instead of LRV vehicles, so that way they dont need to follow the BS streetcar rules such as needing to slow down at intersections. The buses can also accelerate faster than the LRVs. These changes will make the line go faster compared to now. 3 billion dollars for a BRT line sounds expensive but the TTC can probably recoup some of the cost by selling all their Citradis Spirits cheaply back to alstom and then buy some buses to run the BRT. Lets make lemonade and be done with this.

I highly doubt that will solve the problem. TTC being fear that cars will randomly getting in its way would issue a notice to all bus drivers in the middle of the BRT roadway to slow down well ahead of the intersection before proceeding.

The LRT line is decided for trains to cruise at full speed and stop at the platform. Even on the subway, the TTC tells trains to slow down before entering the platform if they observe a crowded platform. These are the rules that make anything TTC operates to be slow.

 

[Bojaxs]

I highly doubt that will solve the problem. TTC being fear that cars will randomly getting in its way would issue a notice to all bus drivers in the middle of the BRT roadway to slow down well ahead of the intersection before proceeding.

The LRT line is decided for trains to cruise at full speed and stop at the platform. Even on the subway, the TTC tells trains to slow down before entering the platform if they observe a crowded platform. These are the rules that make anything TTC operates to be slow.

So sick and tired of the TTC's "nanny" like behaviour towards it's riders and the people of Toronto. I even heard Jamal Myers mention during his recent press conference that "Vision Zero" was being applied to streetcars and LRTs. Really???

Meanwhile in Manchester the TfGM actually treats people like adults and operates normally with the expectation that some nutcase won't jump in front of a moving tram. And if they do, it's their own damn fault.

I dare not show this video to one of the TTC board members. They'll probably have a heart attack. I was definitely having some mild culture shock. I was constantly wondering why people were risking standing so close to a moving tram.

 

[abovegrade]

Updated Map:

View attachment 702061View attachment 702062View attachment 702064

Question - why don't the finch west line's lights blink on the map when you reach finch west station on line 1?

 

[reaperexpress]

Question - why don't the finch west line's lights blink on the map when you reach finch west station on line 1?

What lights?

 

[abovegrade]

What lights?

I was talking about on the TTC map on the line 1 trains. For example line 4 and line 2 light up briefly when reaching interchange stations, do finch and eglinton lines not have lights on the map?

 

[Bojaxs]

I was talking about on the TTC map on the line 1 trains. For example line 4 and line 2 light up briefly when reaching interchange stations, do finch and eglinton lines not have lights on the map?

What he's saying is, there are no lights for Line 6 & 5 on those maps.

 

[reaperexpress]

If I am understanding things correctly, the TTC can't due to the contract with Mosaic Transit. It seems that any change like speed or implementation of TSP has to be amended into the contract, although the Province seems to be disputing this. Regardless if anything this shows a serious flaw in the idea of a P3 since if this is the case then that means the Crosstown and even worse the Ontario Line are at risk of having there services hamstrung but contractual nonsense. If every change to one of these services requires amendments to contracts with the private partner then imo there is zero benefit to using P3's since now its issues can extend beyond just the construction of a line but its very operations after opening day.

I'm pretty sure they were misrepresenting the contract. My understanding from their repetition of many similar excuses during the TTC board meeting today was that any changes to the schedule, or any changes to operating characteristics (e.g. operating much faster and potentially increasing wear and tear on the vehicles) needs to be amended in the contract. They explicitly said that the City has unilateral authority to make signal timing changes, so they do not need any approval from Mx or Mosaic (though they are insisting on getting approval anyway, possibly as an excuse to let the political pressure die down). The only thing is that if they upgrade the TSP but don't change the schedule, the line can't run faster than 46 minutes.

That said, they do already plan to update the schedule in April, so that's not necessarily an issue. They haven't written the new schedule yet and Laurence Lui (TTC Service Planning) said they will be observing operations to determine run times.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was talking about on the TTC map on the line 1 trains. For example line 4 and line 2 light up briefly when reaching interchange stations, do finch and eglinton lines not have lights on the map?

No they don't have lights because the lines weren't under construction yet in the early 2000s when the trains were built.