Jonny5
Senior Member
Wait, what? I though Pride was this weekend? Then again.... http://thestar.blogs.com/g20/2010/06/rcmp-pinup-boys-on-the-water.html
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- Thread starter TO City of Light
- Start date
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
$1B for an event with dubious benefits to the city; zilch for an event one week later with obvious benefits and little of the headache. Priorities, priorities.
Jonny5:
Hell, I do have to say, they're one weekend early. Saw a batch on Monday grabbing coffee on the way back out to Hamilton - they're eye candy alright, though I suspect dressing up in full gear might be more intimidating to most than being someone's cup of tea. But please, can someone do something about the protective footware? Totally ruins the look.
AoD
Jonny5:
Hell, I do have to say, they're one weekend early. Saw a batch on Monday grabbing coffee on the way back out to Hamilton - they're eye candy alright, though I suspect dressing up in full gear might be more intimidating to most than being someone's cup of tea. But please, can someone do something about the protective footware? Totally ruins the look.
AoD
Asterix
Active Member
Are you referring to the subway that was shutdown?
You're the commander with your cops at King and Bay. Which station do you go to? Presumably all the station entrances are locked down, so now you've got to find someone from the TTC with the keys, find someone from the TTC who can order the subway train and driver that you've presumably pre-positioned in the closed off section for this very purpose and get them to the desired station (St Andrew? King? Union?).
But what if while you are heading to the subway, the rioters turn west off Yonge so now they are at Bay and Dundas? Do you go to St Patrick and march over? What if you also want to have a line coming from the east or south? Presumably you've got another subway train and driver pre-positioned so you can send a detachment to Dundas station.
What if the rioters head over to Allen Gardens? Do you now go to College and walk over?
Oh wait, your question was just joking.
nfitz
Superstar
There's a facebook group calling for an inquiry:
Canadians Demanding a Public Inquiry into Toronto G20 - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=135629036463012
17,435 members at 17:55
Canadians Demanding a Public Inquiry into Toronto G20 - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=135629036463012
17,435 members at 17:55
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
E.B.
Active Member
I think a few things need to be mentioned.
The police say they were aware, in advance, that the black bloc were coming to T.O. Should they have been aware of their tactics? Yes. If people on this thread could think of some of the tactics that would be used, then why didn't the police? I mean really, the police only had months to plan and prepare. How can they say they weren't prepared!
On Saturday the Black bloc were dressed in black and had their faces covered. Pretty easy for the police to see who they were, but did very little to stop them, saying that they were protecting the fence. But the police also stated that they had an additional responsibility to protect the public, and that's why they needed 15 - 20 thousand officers on duty. I don't buy the argument that the police did what they needed to do to protect the fence. They had enough to do both, and were supposed to do both. But they were like a deer caught in the headlights.
On Sunday their were few, if any, protesters dressed in Black/covered faces. Why then did the police attack innocent people who were obviously not breaking windows or being violent? Once again, I don't buy the argument that the police were taunted and sworn at, so they had to act. The police are trained not to react to provocations like that. I would imagine that during their month's of training, they went over this scenario. I hope they weren't trained to attack protesters because they said a few nasty words?
Blair lying about the 5m law is not acceptable. Some of the statements on the thread say that if protesters got close to the fence, the police would have stepped in and moved them back. If that's true then why did Blair need lie?
On Sunday, one of the clips I saw had about thirty people that were 50-70 yrs old that were praying at King and Bay. They were practically surrounded by police. Were they really a threat?
The police say they were aware, in advance, that the black bloc were coming to T.O. Should they have been aware of their tactics? Yes. If people on this thread could think of some of the tactics that would be used, then why didn't the police? I mean really, the police only had months to plan and prepare. How can they say they weren't prepared!
On Saturday the Black bloc were dressed in black and had their faces covered. Pretty easy for the police to see who they were, but did very little to stop them, saying that they were protecting the fence. But the police also stated that they had an additional responsibility to protect the public, and that's why they needed 15 - 20 thousand officers on duty. I don't buy the argument that the police did what they needed to do to protect the fence. They had enough to do both, and were supposed to do both. But they were like a deer caught in the headlights.
On Sunday their were few, if any, protesters dressed in Black/covered faces. Why then did the police attack innocent people who were obviously not breaking windows or being violent? Once again, I don't buy the argument that the police were taunted and sworn at, so they had to act. The police are trained not to react to provocations like that. I would imagine that during their month's of training, they went over this scenario. I hope they weren't trained to attack protesters because they said a few nasty words?
Blair lying about the 5m law is not acceptable. Some of the statements on the thread say that if protesters got close to the fence, the police would have stepped in and moved them back. If that's true then why did Blair need lie?
On Sunday, one of the clips I saw had about thirty people that were 50-70 yrs old that were praying at King and Bay. They were practically surrounded by police. Were they really a threat?
Peepers
Banned
Last Saturday while Torontos' coward cops stood idly by and allowed a small group of thugs to vandalize 100's of stores it was up to the public to stop the looting. In the below video a bystander tackles a looter and prevents the theft of a cell phone from the Bell store. His courageous actions discouraged another guy from trying to loot the same store. Where are the video's of Police officers taking similar actions? They don't exist because the cops could not or would not intervene. They Allowed the crimes to take place. I don't know anyone can defend the cops after what they ALLOWED to happen on Saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CKkLYYczdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CKkLYYczdM
tissot
Active Member
Are you trying to be ironic............. I really can't tell anymore. -_-'
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
How do you arrest and detain people for simply wearing black clothing??? We've got people here talking about civil rights being broken in the middle of a violent riot and police are expected to arrest people simply for the clothes that they wear??? Black Bloc were intent on bringing down the security fence, that's been their m.o. since Seattle 1999, it is reasonable to think that the police belived that the rioting and looting was an attempt to draw police away from the fence. The police were there to defend the perimiter fence and that's what they did.
I think what's coming out of this is that future summits are going to need police both for the perimeter fence and to patrol the surrounding areas stopping those violent idiots as the commit their crimes. If you think 1 billion was a lot...
I can hear the comments now:
-Police state
-Fascism
-etc
Peepers
Banned
What exactly in my above post do you find ironic?
AGTO
Banned
They were also charged with protecting the public....they failed miserably in that and should be held accountable for it....you won't acknowledge this though, because it doesn't support your whine.
kettal
Banned
I'm as angry as anybody about the vandalism and car burning that happened, but I think the police did a great job providing safety to the public. I live in an area heavily affected by the vandals, and I was happy to have police at every corner when I had to go outside over the weekend. Doesn't excuse everything that every cop has done, but I am grateful for their presence.
Tewder
Senior Member
That video is enough to turn me into a fascist. Can somebody please try to explain to me just what issues these spoiled children were 'protesting'? And how this display is to be considered, in any way, the exercising of one's legitimate right to demonstration? That the collective age among them looks to be fourteen is probably all the explanation needed...
The place for peaceful protest was at the legislature and Queen's Park. Everything else was simply civil disobedience, disrupting order in the city and the rights of all other citizens to go about their business, earn their livelihood, spend their money, and gather for other reasons, including for legitimate peaceful protest. The strong arm came down, eventually, and somewhat sloppily if truth be told, but who but the biggest morons among us should be surprised? And who but the least invested in peaceful society should be upset? For the most part you had absolutely almost zero chance of being seriously inconvenienced if you stayed away from any of the hot zones that emerged over the course of the weekend, as you were instructed to do. If you chose to ignore the warnings or good sense you have only your naive self to thank.
The number one mandate of security forces in the city was to protect the summit, which is to say the gathering of our democratically elected leaders, the symbolic 'us' in a larger sense. The outbreak of crime elsewhere in the city at this time was simply a disingenuous, misguided and opportunistic effort to disrupt our democracy and peaceful city. It's a little rich to listen to the perpetrators of this criticize how they were handled. This is not to say that there were no truly innocent bystanders caught in the confusion, but these were extraordinary circumstances and hardly grounds for accusations that our society has devolved into a corrupt police state. Just not buying it!
Asterix
Active Member
Miserably? How many innocent members of the public were seriously hurt by rioters who came prepared to cause significant violence and destruction? In the grand scheme of things, how many windows and properties were seriously damaged by these same hundreds of single-minded idiot rioters?
If you expect there to be zero damage when so many with malicious intent descend upon the city, then you need to add a few more zeros to the security budget. Given the situation faced, I'd say the police did a rather exemplary job. It seems the worst of the complaints are that detainees weren't given chaise lounges or immediate first class catering. Nine hours and you just got a cheese sandwich before being released? Sure sounds like a gross abuse of human rights.
spider
Senior Member
If the Police plan was so well devised to respond to any problem wouldn't the planners make sure that the subway was functional for exactly this purpose if no other? Apparently not, just one more flaw in their unprofessional plans.