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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
Cool. I might take a stab and add some projects.
retrofiturbanism
Active Member
Ugh. Richard White is just not a good writer, and a much worse researcher. The "math" he does is full of really broad, and poorly researched assumptions . "I made a broad guess that 70% of births happen in newer neighbourhoods." Why this number? "90% of deaths each year are from developed communities". Again, why this number?
Also, he makes broad claims about affordability, but does he have ANY research to back this up? Nope. Just because an infill in Hillhurst may cost a million dollars, that doesn't mean that the established areas are unaffordable. Forest Lawn. Erin Woods. Bowness. Southwood. Applewood Park. Thorncliffe. Marlborough. Haysboro. Fairview. All of those are in the established areas. Not really places where you need a million dollars to buy a home.
This is a HORRIBLY researched article. The Civic census is available, every year, in excel format. You can at least do some math and try and back up your assumptions.
One thing these articles, and the research they cite, constantly miss, is the effect of declining populations in "outer suburbs" on the net population changes. In Calgary for example, 30% of growth from 2017 to 2018 occurred in our Centre City, Inner City and inner ring suburbs (pre-1965 burbs essentially). But only 16% of growth happened in all established areas (generally everything built to about 2000). Why? Because the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s neighbourhoods are bleeding population. Overall, these neighbourhoods lost 3000 people in 2017-2018.
Some examples:
Strathcona Park lost 176 people.
St Andrews Heights lost 121 people.
Lakeview lost 115
Hawkwood lost 163 people. Scenic Acres lost 161.
Edgemont (where I grew up) lost 259 people.
Beddington lost 216
Marlborough lost 177
Temple lost 137
Woodlands lost 234
Lake Bonavista, 127
Ogden- 249
McKenzie Lake- 178
Mill Rise- 142
This is the real story in Calgary, and many US and Canadian cities. Growth in inner cities and centre cities is very strong, and growing. But those suburbs we built from the 1960s on are declining fast. So when you lump in those areas with areas of high growth, it makes it look like everyone is moving to the suburbs, but in reality, the kids are moving out of the old suburbs and its skewing the numbers. If Richard took only a couple of hours of homework, he would have seen that clear as day.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Great post. My main problem with Richard White is that most of what I've read from him just seems like hyperbolic boosterism. Case in point, this quote from the article:
First of all, density on a per capita basis is kind of an odd stat, but I guess White is looking for some excuse to shout "We're number one!!" No need to seek validation from some busy academic, however. Density data is easily accessible from Stats Canada. Calgary increased its density from 1329 people/km2 to 1501.1 (an increase of 172.1). Not bad, but Vancouver increased from 5249.1 to 5492.6 (increase = 243.5). Also the city of Vancouver has a much smaller population than Calgary (631,486 to 1,239,220). But "no fair" you say: "the city of Vancouver is just the equivalent of an inner city. It's comparing apples and oranges". Okay, well the suburban city of Brampton increased from 1967.1 to 2228.7 (increase = 261.6) and it also has a much smaller population.
You could also look at density at the CMA level, though I doubt that's what White was thinking when he wrote that "Calgary was Canada's leader when it came to urban densification". However, density increases on the CMA level will typically be driven by greenfield developments between the various towns and cities (i.e. Calgary and Airdrie sprawling into each other). Toronto's CMA is the king of density, but only because it has devoured pretty much all of its greenfields.
Anyway, this article seems to be grasping at straws to paint a rosy picture of urbanization in Calgary. And I haven't even gotten to the point where he tries to compare Brookfield's new Livingston development to Hillhurst/Sunnyside.
retrofiturbanism
Active Member
The whole question of density, growth and planning is a very complicated one, and not one you can just lazily make broad assumptions and point out random facts about. Richard White does that in spades. Comparing different municipalities, census metropolitan areas or built up areas is fraught with complexity, value judgements and lots of nuanced definitions of borders. Not saying you shouldn't try, but it is much more complex than Richard gives credit for.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
By the way, here's the original report on Canadian Suburbanization: http://www.canadiansuburbs.ca/files/Still_Suburban_Monograph_2016.pdf
AJX
Active Member
Thank you, I couldn't agree more. Something that drives me nuts with White's articles is the amount of anecdotal evidence he constantly cites! Sad part is, he's still used by the out of touch mainstream media, I wish the CBC or Herald would get off their lazy asses and find someone who has a better grasp of modern urbanism.
JesseLikesCities
Active Member
It's kind of funny how many none urban enthusiasts out there will read this article and take it as gospel.
Beltline_B
Senior Member
Or in the days before social media and forums. 15 years ago you had almost no choice but to take as gospel guys like Dave Parker and Richard White.
Personally I find Richard White to be out touch, I think his heart’s in the right place, but he’s a throwback.
Personally I find Richard White to be out touch, I think his heart’s in the right place, but he’s a throwback.
JesseLikesCities
Active Member
https://globalnews.ca/news/4486877/downtown-calgary-commercial-struggles-suburbs-boom/
What do you guys make of this? Also is Chadillaccc on this forum? I quite like his posts on SSP, I was just catching up on The Great Canadian skyline thread.
What do you guys make of this? Also is Chadillaccc on this forum? I quite like his posts on SSP, I was just catching up on The Great Canadian skyline thread.
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UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
AccUnit
Active Member
I don't mind Richard White's articles. He offers a perspective that is usually different than my own. It's good to hear different perspectives when informing your own ideas. That being said I think Retro is bang on, urbanism is about nuance and subtlety.
Spring2008
Active Member
Wow - what an upgrade for Stephen Ave's most depressing podium! This along with Stephen Ave revamp work planned all the way to 11st SW should continue to add major appeal for one of our most prominent strips.
"Slate also announced that it has partnered with O&B and Concorde to create three innovative and inspired dining destinations in Stephen Avenue Place; a world-class restaurant on the top floor, an eclectic food hall and a high-energy restaurant, bar and patio on the street level."
https://www.restobiz.ca/calgary-bas...-oliver-bonacini-hospitality-newest-property/
Before:
Edit - looks like we're getting a new 40th floor resto too!
Slate, with its partners Oliver & Bonacini and Concorde Group, are creating three singular dining concepts at Stephen Avenue Place: a panoramic 40th floor world-class restaurant, a 2nd floor chef-driven, market-style Food Hall and a stylish and animated ground floor restaurant, patio and bar. O&B and Concorde are also revitalizing Stephen Avenue fixtures Goro + Gun and National Beer Hall.
Standing tall above the 100,000 sqft. retail podium is 520,000 sqft. of state-of-the-art workspaces complete with gym, conference centre and private lounge.
http://stephenavenueplace.com/
"Slate also announced that it has partnered with O&B and Concorde to create three innovative and inspired dining destinations in Stephen Avenue Place; a world-class restaurant on the top floor, an eclectic food hall and a high-energy restaurant, bar and patio on the street level."
https://www.restobiz.ca/calgary-bas...-oliver-bonacini-hospitality-newest-property/
Before:
Edit - looks like we're getting a new 40th floor resto too!
Slate, with its partners Oliver & Bonacini and Concorde Group, are creating three singular dining concepts at Stephen Avenue Place: a panoramic 40th floor world-class restaurant, a 2nd floor chef-driven, market-style Food Hall and a stylish and animated ground floor restaurant, patio and bar. O&B and Concorde are also revitalizing Stephen Avenue fixtures Goro + Gun and National Beer Hall.
Standing tall above the 100,000 sqft. retail podium is 520,000 sqft. of state-of-the-art workspaces complete with gym, conference centre and private lounge.
http://stephenavenueplace.com/
Attachments
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Nimbus
Active Member
Wow, fantastic news! That is definitely one of the most bleak sections of Stephen Avenue.
gsunnyg
Senior Member
Just beat me to it! Thats one of the 3 or so buildings I was hoping would get renovated on that street one day. That concrete was always an eyesore for such a beautiful street.Wow - what an upgrade for Stephen Ave's most depressing podium! This along with Stephen Ave revamp work planned all the way to 11st SW should continue to add major appeal for one of our most prominent strips.
"Slate also announced that it has partnered with O&B and Concorde to create three innovative and inspired dining destinations in Stephen Avenue Place; a world-class restaurant on the top floor, an eclectic food hall and a high-energy restaurant, bar and patio on the street level."
https://www.restobiz.ca/calgary-bas...-oliver-bonacini-hospitality-newest-property/
Before:
View attachment 158388
Edit - looks like we're getting a new 40th floor resto too!
Slate, with its partners Oliver & Bonacini and Concorde Group, are creating three singular dining concepts at Stephen Avenue Place: a panoramic 40th floor world-class restaurant, a 2nd floor chef-driven, market-style Food Hall and a stylish and animated ground floor restaurant, patio and bar. O&B and Concorde are also revitalizing Stephen Avenue fixtures Goro + Gun and National Beer Hall.
Standing tall above the 100,000 sqft. retail podium is 520,000 sqft. of state-of-the-art workspaces complete with gym, conference centre and private lounge.
http://stephenavenueplace.com/