[the lemur]

This thread is getting so long that I can't recall the last time I chimed in but what I wanted to add is, don't be fooled by numbers when comparing Toronto to other cities. Bike lane numbers are like trophies cities like to boast about. I have found that many of the bike lanes in other cities are not only bogus but outright dangerous (example: hello Hamburg, hello Tokyo). Observe for yourself and bike elsewhere if you are luck enough to have a chance. I for one find biking in Toronto to be simple, safe, culturally accepted and useful. Winter sucks but then again we should be grateful we don't live in a city where the temperature is consistantly hot either. I would rather bike at 0 degrees than at 30.

It's a little like the mythical homogenous 'Europe' some people cite, where biking is supposedly uniformly idyllic, instead of being made up of some places where bike infrastructure is great (Denmark, the Netherlands), others where it's half-assed (Germany, the UK) and still others where the attitude to cycling is indifferent/hostile.

 

[TrickyRicky]

My intention in pointing out the limitations of solutions in other cities is not to criticism them but to oberve what can happen when you get your info from the internet with rose-coloured glasses on. I was just in Montreal and Taipei. Montreal is a good biking city but the condition of the roads are so bad, including and in particular some of the much admired on this forum separated bike-lanes, you basically can't sit down on your seat. I observed some newly installed bike lanes in the upscale district around Taipei 101 but it was so hot you couldn't bike for 5 minutes without getting heat-stroke, and besides Taiwanese women in general tend to shy way from physcial exertion and anything that puts them in contact with direct sunlight. Yet if you were to just look at the pictures you would think them to be fine examples of road urban planning.

 

[ShonTron]

Another bright idea from Denzil Moron-Wrong:

Ban bicycles from Wychwood Avenue because of the death two weeks ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ck-following-death-of-cyclist/article4490986/

Excerpt:

Cycling ban proposed on street with disused streetcar track following death of cyclist
STEPHEN SPENCER DAVIS
The Globe and Mail
Published Monday, Aug. 20 2012, 10:14 PM EDT

After the death of a cyclist whose wheel became caught in an unused stretch of streetcar track on Wychwood Avenue, Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong says the city should consider banning cycling on the quiet, residential street.

Cycling advocates and local politicians have called for the city to examine the dangers that streetcar tracks pose to cyclists since the death of Joseph Mavec on Aug. 6. Although the city does not track crashes on streetcar tracks, advocates say a wrong turn onto the rails can send even the most seasoned rider flying.

Now, Mr. Minnan-Wong said the city should examine solutions that include removing parking spaces on Wychwood Avenue or banning cycling on the street.

“You wouldn’t have accidents because people wouldn’t be allowed to cycle on the road,” Mr. Minnan-Wong said.

 

[nfitz]

Another bright idea from Denzil Moron-Wrong:

Ban bicycles from Wychwood Avenue because of the death two weeks ago.

Good grief. How can an apparently intelligent man, take 2+2 and get 5 so frequently.

 

[PinkLucy]

So then the next logical step would be to ban cars on streets where motorists have died?

 

[W. K. Lis]

So then the next logical step would be to ban cars on streets where motorists have died?

Or ban swimming because someone drowned.

 

[PinkLucy]

And walking because someone was killed.
And flying because a plane crashed.

 

[rbt]

Good grief. How can an apparently intelligent man, take 2+2 and get 5 so frequently.

It isn't a bad quote if you drop the part after the OR.

"Now, Mr. Minnan-Wong said the city should examine solutions that include removing parking spaces on Wychwood Avenue ..."

 

[ShonTron]

I've biked up and down Wychwood since that death (my brother lives not too far away and was biking to his place), and it isn't that dangerous (and I'm saying this having fallen twice in tracks, once a minor deal and once a major injury). The road is narrower than most with tracks as it is only a wide two lane street, but it's quiet and slow and not a through route. The removal of the track at St. Clair itself makes it easy enough to manouvre to the left to make a left turn. McCaul is of similar width and more of a hazard due to traffic and track junctions at College, Dundas, McCaul Loop and Queen, I only bike McCaul for a very short distance daily, inbound only, between Baldwin and Elm, and it's the most dangerous part of my commute.

But banning bikes from McCaul is a silly idea too.

 

[cassius]

^ I've taken a number of spills with my wheels getting caught in the tracks (usually in the winter after a fresh snowfall because they're less visible) but my worst spill was on McCaul at Dundas. Over-the-handle-bars fun!

 

[the lemur]

This might be totally impractical, but what if the tracks on Wychwood were turned into a kind of median? You could put down some planters, maybe even move some parking spaces to the middle, leaving the curb lanes free for bikes and cars, so no one is bothered by the tracks.

 

[Hipster Duck]

^In theory that's a great idea, but there are two sets of tracks and the space left over on either side would only be wide enough for a travel lane, and leave no space for on-street parking.

 

[the lemur]

^In theory that's a great idea, but there are two sets of tracks and the space left over on either side would only be wide enough for a travel lane, and leave no space for on-street parking.

Yes, but if all the on-street parking is in the middle, one travel lane on each side would be enough.

 

[vatche]

It's a little like the mythical homogenous 'Europe' some people cite, where biking is supposedly uniformly idyllic, instead of being made up of some places where bike infrastructure is great (Denmark, the Netherlands), others where it's half-assed (Germany, the UK) and still others where the attitude to cycling is indifferent/hostile.

A good friend of fine just got back from Amsterdam. She said that the streets were full of extremely rude and aggressive bikers. They run red lights, they don't stop, don't pay attention to pedestrians. She was not impressed at all. Her family rented bikes, and she was rammed into by a guy biking full speed. She said it was scary.
She is totally for bikes, but not that type of biking.
The point I'm trying to make is that we always think other cities are better. Everything is better someplace else. Well, They are not!!!

 

[the lemur]

we always think other cities are better. Everything is better someplace else. Well, They are not!!!

It's not true across the board and it's always subjective anyway. People come to Toronto and sometimes think some aspects of it are better than their own cities and that some are not.

I don't know what your friend was expecting, but Amsterdam is busy and crowded and has some of that big-city rudeness and selfishness that has little patience for relaxed sightseeing. It's still a good place to get around by bike, but it's not representative of cities in the Netherlands in terms of biking or otherwise. There are other, smaller cities there that are better for biking, as well as the bike infrastructure that connects those cities. Amsterdam should not be cited as an example of ideal urban biking by default.