Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Yes, Railroad Tycoon III specifically.
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- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
Allandale25
Senior Member
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Government of Canada invests in four projects to increase the shipping efficiency of railroads in Regina and southern Saskatchewan
Canada’s supply chain is still feeling the impacts of the pandemic and the Government of Canada is committed to addressing this by strengthening Canada’s supply chains and trade corridors, which will grow the economy and mitigate global inflation.
Government of Canada invests in four projects to increase the shipping efficiency of railroads in Regina and southern Saskatchewan
kEiThZ
Superstar
Metrolinx exists to provide public transport. Not to fulfill the fantasies of railfans.
Also, I don't buy for a second that these small towns full of pickup drivers with truck nuts are all that interested in reducing car dependency.
kalis0490
New Member
I Disagree: When literal Exurbs like Caledon and Bowmanville are clamouring for GO ( last time I checked these aren't the most progressive areas), I think many people want train services
crs1026
Superstar
I’m not judging country folks who rely on big vehicles, but the car dependency is built in to those communities.
I happen to know Tillsonburg well, my in laws lived there for many years. (And Simcoe, and Delhi, but I digress…)
If you look at where people in “tobacco country” need to go, it ain’t where the railways went. London and Kitchener for medical and services, Woodstock for shopping and more immediate needs. Higher order education in the usual places - Toronto, Hamilton, Guelph, Waterloo, London, Windsor. Port Burwell and Port Dover for a pitcher of beer and a basket of perch or pickerel. Services and dealers for agricultural or industrial stuff, any of the above.
The branch lines down that way just don’t have potential to help with any of those. And frankly, any family with a young person in college likely has an older cast-off pickup truck that the kids can use to commute or come home on weekends. Lots of second hand vehicles on the market.In a pinch, someone can drive them to VIA in Woodstock, although there aren’t that many trains to choose from.
Lots of older people who don’t want to drive or who are beyond that, but a single bus a day is again inflexible for that, and that market needs a ride to their door. No place for trains.
- Paul
kEiThZ
Superstar
Railfans seem to see transit agency budgets as money trees for their personal rail fantasies, rather than public funds that must be judiciously marshalled towards providing the maximum public mobility possible.
Why the heck is anybody worried about car dependency in damn Tillsonburg when there's still lots of places in the GTA where transit services are so poor that you can't actually function without a car?
Also, a train ain't gonna solve their car dependency issues. What do railfans think those folks are going to use to get to the train station?
I'm a little annoyed because it's getting ridiculously repetitive for every person from a two horse town to argue that they need rail service, knowing full well most of those residents wont use those services and all it will do is eat up public budgets that could be used to deliver better services in areas where there is demand.
If you live in Tillsonburg, you made a choice to live in a small town with high car dependency. The rest of us don't have to subsidize your lifestyle. Deal.
Why the heck is anybody worried about car dependency in damn Tillsonburg when there's still lots of places in the GTA where transit services are so poor that you can't actually function without a car?
Also, a train ain't gonna solve their car dependency issues. What do railfans think those folks are going to use to get to the train station?
I'm a little annoyed because it's getting ridiculously repetitive for every person from a two horse town to argue that they need rail service, knowing full well most of those residents wont use those services and all it will do is eat up public budgets that could be used to deliver better services in areas where there is demand.
If you live in Tillsonburg, you made a choice to live in a small town with high car dependency. The rest of us don't have to subsidize your lifestyle. Deal.
kEiThZ
Superstar
We should be investing in regional bus networks. But advocating for bus service isn't sexy. So nobody cares. For so many of these people it's trains or nothing.
I will take frequency over mode any day. Frequency is what gives you schedule flexibility. And that is freedom.
crs1026
Superstar
I’m not sure that it’s even the people in those small towns who are doing the advocating. I suspect the mayor of Tillsonburg has a long list of things that the town needs more (I’m not sure why we are picking on that town, either….it’s a nice place but there are plenty of others).
The argument seems to come more from people who like to draw lines on maps and those who advocate against the auto. Outside of major cities and corridors, where there is a reality of congestion and a need to serve a great many at lowest cost, the auto serves us well. And if it becomes an EV, there is no longer as pressing a green concern. Sure, don’t bring your F150 into downtown Toronto, park it at the end of the GO line…. but I don’t take my Honda FIT on backroads in blizzards…. things are a little different in the country.
I see little likelihood of our abandoning our network of rural and regional roads, and little likelihood that they will become unaffordable. We might as well get every possible use out of them. We do definitely need to improve mobility and accessibility to small towns, but putting more buses on the roads is a much cheaper alternative. I’m much more interested in keeping branch lines for freight service, but that’s not ML or VIA’s mandate.
The case for rail only comes when volume overwhelms the road network, and where the potential market capture justifies the cost and effort..We are certainly there on our intercity corridors, but relying on roads beyond these is going to remain the norm.
- Paul
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Driving distance from Union station as per Google Maps:
Caledon - 75km
Bowmanville - 77km
Tillsonburg - 174km
One of these is not like the others....
kEiThZ
Superstar
Here's why I don't take claims of wanting to reduce car dependency in these towns seriously:
That's their town website. You can look up local and intercity transit schedules. Local service is 2 routes that run ONCE PER HOUR. Some intercity routes don't even run every weekday. This is for a town that has 18 615 residents as per last census. They can't be bothered to even run decent bus service in their own town.
That's their town website. You can look up local and intercity transit schedules. Local service is 2 routes that run ONCE PER HOUR. Some intercity routes don't even run every weekday. This is for a town that has 18 615 residents as per last census. They can't be bothered to even run decent bus service in their own town.
crs1026
Superstar
It's actually a lot better than even a few years' back.
I wouldn't expect a town of 18,615 to have the resources to do much more. The operating cost amounts to probably $5 per resident in property taxes annually for each operator hired. Note the $10 one way fare.... Ontario isn't funding this anywhere near GO levels.
Also note that the route to London ends at Victoria Hospital rather than downtown or at a transit hub. That says something about the role it's playing.
Having said that, it is close to the number of trips per day that one would see on a rural bus route in, say, Scotland.... although one would expect more days of operation. At least there's a planned connection to VIA at Woodstock.... except.... one of those VIA trains hasn't returned yet.
Ontario should do a lot better. But (to the original point) the remaining or past rail routes through T'burg wouldn't connect any of these dots.
- Paul
ShonTron
Moderator
It’s also worth noting that Tillsonburg actually worked to provide connections to Woodstock (including the VIA station) and to the hospital in London.
Instead of rail fantasies, start by supporting bus connections where they don’t exist yet.
kEiThZ
Superstar
It's pretty hard to swallow the argument that they care about reducing car dependency when the excuses for such terrible bus service is that they couldn't spend more. I'm going to bet the transit portion of their tax bill is an order of magnitude smaller than that of a 416 homeowner. So I do think they can do better.
It's sad that we have such low standards for our towns. A town of 20k could easily support half a dozen routes running on 15 min headways. But transit is a big city thing in their world. And the fat cats in Toronto should just pay for a train they won't use. You can see the mindset from a mile away.
T3G
Senior Member
I'm not arguing necessarily in favour of RAIL RAIL RAIL everywhere, but I find statements such as this to be not only defeatist, but also absurdly simplistic. And they can apply to any place which is lacking in any form of services, can they not?
These statements apply equally to the dysfunctional suburbs of Toronto as they do to Tillsonburg and other towns of little to no consequence. Why are you in support of improving transit services in the terrible suburbs of the GTA, but those in Tilsonburg should "deal" with the consequences of decisions they may not have even made? What exactly is the difference? What do you think people living in Milton or Pickering use to get to the train station? I promise you it is not their ridiculous bus networks.
I live in one of these suburbs. I did not make the choice to live here, I do not presently have the means to move away, but I bemoan the lack of quality urban planning and the lack of quality transit service here, and the many opportunities it has cost me in my life up to this point, daily. I feel for people who live in Tilsonburg and elsewhere who surely must feel the same way. Obviously the only long term solution is to leave these places quickly and definitively, but sometimes the opportunity to do so is not present.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
The difference is population and economic impact. Simple as that. What's peak traffic in Tillsonburg? 10 mins at Tim's every morning? On the other hand traffic in the GTA is costing the provincial and national economy billions annually. It's hours of delay caused to millions of residents daily.
Also, I've long been an advocate of forcing the 905 to pony up for better transit. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that we subsidize their car dependency, to the point that thia kind of urban planning is apparently now depopulating Mississauga. Extending the 905 subsidy model another 100 km out is only making the black hole of waste bigger. Tillsonburg's issues with car dependency aren't going to be fixed with them seeing a few GO trains per day. But the cost to the taxpayer will be massive.
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