[roger1818]

Maybe I'm missing something. I thought the proposal was to use windpower to crack hydrogen from seawater then compress it and ship it to Europe. No natural gas or pipelines needed.

Not sure about the seawater bit as salt water is much more corrosive than fresh water, so the electrodes will corrode much more quickly. Not only does that mean that they need to ne replaced more frequently, but the process becomes less efficient when the electrodes are corroded. Work is being done to find materials that the electrodes can be made of that won’t corrode as easily but are still efficient but that is still years away.

And I read somewhere that ammonia was what was to be produced and shipped, because while hazardous it’s easier to transport safely, and can be broken down easily into hydrogen at the destination.

- Pul

Yes, it is very likely that the hydrogen will be converted to ammonia for transportation. Not only is it easier to store (it isn’t corrosive like H2 and is a liquid at STP) but it has a higher energy density than either liquid compressed H2. The disadvantage is you need a facility to convert it back to H2 at the destination (and then compress it). Work is being done to make ammonia fuel cells, which would solve this problem.

 

[lenaitch]

Why couldn't they get funding to keep the Orangeville Brampton railway running? Seems more like politics rather than economics if you ask me.

Federal or provincial funding might have been available - many shortlines have done it, but it seems clear that the Town or Orangeville, the owner of much of the line, wanted out of the business and was willing to risk either increased road traffic or industrial relocation to get it done. Even if they got some infrastructure funding, an owner of a very lightly used 30km line still has to operate it while hoping that they can attract further customers, which could be years, if ever.

 

[crs1026]

Why couldn't they get funding to keep the Orangeville Brampton railway running? Seems more like politics rather than economics if you ask me.

It’s unlikely that the owners applied to this program for funding. If you don’t apply, you aren’t considered.

People underestimate the cost of that life extension. CP shed the Orangeville line 22 years ago. Crossties only last 30 years. The skeleton maintenance performed since 2000 would not have kept pace with the aging process. The OBRY was in need of a general refurbishment, even to continue as a marginal branch line.

The majority of the projects on that list involve terminal facilities ie very short stretches of new rail and crossties. Where longer lines are mentioned, these represent many more carloads per year than OBRY..

I too believe the line should have been saved, but had OBRY applied for that program funding, itmight have been low on the priority ranking. The amounts offered probably not have enhanced it much - simply retained it for some future growth. As others have noted, the owners simply weren’t interested in that.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Crossties only last 30 years.

- Paul

I have to call you on on this, Paul. This is simply not true. Wooden ties have no lifespan - they get replaced only as needed.

And because they come from natural sources, their quality can be quite variable. Wooden ties can need to be replaced after 10 years, but they can also last in excess of 60 - and there is no pre-determined lifespan.

Because this was a shortline operation operating without any Dangerous Goods, they could have in theory allowed the structure to deteriorate to a very substantial degree. They likely could have gone many years without a major tie replacement and track structure program. But that would have also precluded them from operating passenger trains.

Now, from an accounting standpoint - yes, wooden ties have to be amortized after 30 years or some similar number. But in the case of most railroads, they don't replace ties willy-nilly just because they can. Even CN and CP will reuse wooden ties when they upgrade their track structure to concrete ties or PaCTTrack.

Dan

 

[lenaitch]

^^ When we lived adjacent to the still-operating Uxbridge Sub in the 1990s, many ties were stamped from 1940s. Some could have been old and, yes, their visible condition was quite varied. Granted, the one or two trains/week by that time were short, light and slow.

 

[crs1026]

I have to call you on on this, Paul. This is simply not true. Wooden ties have no lifespan - they get replaced only as needed.

And because they come from natural sources, their quality can be quite variable. Wooden ties can need to be replaced after 10 years, but they can also last in excess of 60 - and there is no pre-determined lifespan.

The published data is indeed all over the map, and depends on a lot of factors. 30-35 years is a reasonable middle ground for North America. Having no actual data on the Orangeville Sub, I am inclined to go with an average.

My point was - time has been ticking, and OBRY was known to be stingy with crossties. After 22 years as a branch line, and recognizing that CP didn't put a lot of money into the track in the last decade of operation, an increasing number of those ties must be reaching the point of being iiffy. Even on a just-in-time replacement basis - with ties that date from the 1990's or earlier, and the ability to last up to 50-60 years, the number of failed ties would be rising. So the cost of maintaining even that marginal track quality would be increasing.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

By way of comparison, Huron Central is closing in on $33Million in funding including federal and provincial money for capital improvements. That's with supportive municipalities at both end. At ~170 miles, I have to believe that money doesn't go much beyond state-of-good repair/safe operations work. And that's not their first round of public money; I recall they got several Mn a few years back.

 

[crs1026]

^ As @smallspy noted, a lot depends on how slow you are willing to operate.
The track class determines the permissible speed and it also determines how much the track can vary from spec.
The problem is, the further you have downgraded, the more it costs to get back to a better standard if you decide you need it.
Some years ago OBRY dropped some of its speed levels to 10 mph, which is Class 1 track. That's as low as one can go.
Huron Central is still operating at better than bottom speed levels but if they can't maintain something operable, their labour costs and service levels are not sustainable. You can't run a 170 mile line at 10 mph without recrewing, and making people wonder if trucking might work better.
All I'm saying is, we look at all the lightly used branches that might be available for some better service, but we don't always recognize just how close to end-of-life those branches are, or just how much it will cost to breathe new life into them.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

So, I'm guessing this is Class 1?

 

[crs1026]

So, I'm guessing this is Class 1?

LOL. ND+W now have a new owner who (finally) is putting the line back in shape. Details here

The press release says they are inserting 29,000 crossties on a 28 mile stretch of track.

FRA standards (which are the same in Canada) require 5 good ties in each 39 foot section for Class 1 (10 mph), 8 for Class 2 (25 mph).

For a 28 mile line, you'd need 30,326 good ties to meet Class 2, more if there are sharp curves.

So, they must have been pretty much starting over.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Help Save the Matapédia to Gaspé Railroad! | **The Ministry of Transport plans to launch six more new calls for tenders by the end of the year to ensure that the rehabilitation of the railroad on... | Facebook

**The Ministry of Transport plans to launch six more new calls for tenders by the end of the year to ensure that the rehabilitation of the railroad on Section 2 between Caplan and Port-Daniel-Gascons...

www.facebook.com

The Ministry of Transport plans to launch six more new calls for tenders by the end of the year to ensure that the rehabilitation of the railroad on Section 2 between Caplan and Port-Daniel-Gascons is completed by 2024, as promised.
This is what the ministry indicates when it has just launched a call for tenders for construction work to move a portion of the railroad in Port-Daniel-Gascons due to the erosion observed in this area.
The Department has chosen this solution in order to facilitate the execution of the work and future maintenance while not having to intervene in the marine environment. This work is expected to begin by the end of the fall.
Among the six upcoming applications, the ministry must resume the call for tenders to replace the Culvert of Castilloux's Creek in Port-Daniel-Gascons. A first proposal was requested on April 6, but a new call is needed, says the ministry.
Bids will be sought to widen the tunnel in Port-Daniel-Gascons, replace 13 culverts along Section 2, replace the structures overlooking Cullens Creek and Day Creek in Bonaventure, repair the structures spanning the Paspébiac River and the Saint-Godefroi River in Hope Town, and repair the structure spanning the Saint-Siméon River.
These requests are in addition to those published since February 24, namely the reconstruction of the structure in Caplan-Saint-Siméon, the rehabilitation of the structures in Bonaventure, Shigawake and Port-Daniel-Gascons and the replacement of the structure spanning Arsenault Creek in Bonaventure.
In addition, planning is continuing for the rehabilitation of section 3 between Port-Daniel-Gascons and Gaspé.
The Ministry indicates that the timetable for its commissioning may be specified once the preliminary design studies have been completed.
An optimization strategy is being analyzed, in particular concerning the sequence and type of work recommended.
In the meantime, design and engineering work to replace or rehabilitate 21 infrastructures, including soil characterization analyses as well as geotechnical and hydraulic studies, is underway in order to complete the business case by 2023.

Rail : six nouveaux appels d'offres entre Caplan et Port-Daniel-Gascons d'ici la fin de l'année

Le ministère des Transports prévoit lancer six nouveaux appels d’offres d’ici la fin de l’année pour s’assurer de compléter la réhabilitation du rail sur le tronçon 2 entre Caplan et Port-Daniel-Gascons d’ici 2024, tel que [...]

magaspesie.ca

 

[lenaitch]

The Washington Post has a pretty good primer of what the U.S uses for their border security, goes into more detail then I ever could. Canada uses a bit of this, but certainly nowhere near as extensive:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/what-is-border-security/

Overall my point is, Canada/CBSA does not do a good job at all regarding security checks at the U.S/Canada train crossing. All that's done is a CBSA agent asks a few basic questions, and a drug dog sniffs out the train while everyone is off. There is no scanning of any sort either at an individual level, or full scale train scan of any kind.

The difference is pretty stark compared to traveling even compared to crossing by bus.

In acknowledgement that we were somehow sullying the VIA Rail thread, I'll move the discussion here.

The WP link was paywalled so I couldn't read it.

I suppose my point was that both sides use a range of technologies in various applications, but not every conveyance and its contents/occupants that crosses the land border, either way, including personal vehicles, is scanned or sniffed. Can you imagine the back-up? In terms of risk assessment, I'm not sure a bus or train is any greater or lesser a potential security or smuggling risk than a car or truck. It's the people on board.

 

[Bordercollie]

Help Save the Matapédia to Gaspé Railroad! | **The Ministry of Transport plans to launch six more new calls for tenders by the end of the year to ensure that the rehabilitation of the railroad on... | Facebook

**The Ministry of Transport plans to launch six more new calls for tenders by the end of the year to ensure that the rehabilitation of the railroad on Section 2 between Caplan and Port-Daniel-Gascons...

www.facebook.com

Are you kidding me? This area has been washed out for how long and they are finally getting around to doing a study to fix it? What a joke.

 

[Amare]

In acknowledgement that we were somehow sullying the VIA Rail thread, I'll move the discussion here.

The WP link was paywalled so I couldn't read it.

I suppose my point was that both sides use a range of technologies in various applications, but not every conveyance and its contents/occupants that crosses the land border, either way, including personal vehicles, is scanned or sniffed. Can you imagine the back-up? In terms of risk assessment, I'm not sure a bus or train is any greater or lesser a potential security or smuggling risk than a car or truck. It's the people on board.

Use 12 ft io, and plug in the website URL. That will give you access to the article.

You're fully correct in that not every personal vehicle will be checked/scanned/sniffed. It's just far too time consuming and costly, but it makes far more sense to check larger groups of people who are traveling over a border crossing. One reason for this is that if they are coming in at a single period of time, border agents can easily anticipate the arrival via the bus/train schedule which allows them to properly allocate resources.

It's already common practive for border agents on both sides to check bus passengers while crossing the border, and for train passengers to be checked on the American side. So why the CBSA is unable/uninterested in doing so on the Canadian side (or at least for the Niagara Falls crossing) makes no sense.

 

[Northern Light]

You're fully correct in that not every personal vehicle will be checked/scanned/sniffed. It's just far too time consuming and costly, but it makes far more sense to check larger groups of people who are traveling over a border crossing. One reason for this is that if they are coming in at a single period of time, border agents can easily anticipate the arrival via the bus/train schedule which allows them to properly allocate resources.

It's already common practive for border agents on both sides to check bus passengers while crossing the border, and for train passengers to be checked on the American side. So why the CBSA is unable/uninterested in doing so on the Canadian side (or at least for the Niagara Falls crossing) makes no sense.

I simply can't agree on this one.

To me the current level of border checking even for plane passengers is absurd and wasteful. It simply isn't justified on a risk-reward basis.

The U.S. clearly doesn't have a tight border, or it would have no material illicit drug issue, since the majority of cocaine and even heroin and opiods are all produced offshore.

Similarly, while lesser in scale than in the past, the U.S. has vast numbers of undocumented immigrants; while many did enter legally and simply overstayed their lawful welcome; many others walked right across the border and/or were stashed
in trucks or on ships etc etc.

Likewise, we only scratch the surface with illicit guns being taken into this country.

I'm not suggesting we abolish all borders and associated precautions, by any means. But each action we take should be evaluated on weighing its costs in time, hassle and money vs its perceived benefit.

If you believe these border measures have material impacts, I'd like to introduce you to the contraband trade down at Akwesasne ( a reserve on both sides of the border in eastern Ontario) or take you up to Lake of the Woods where you can hop, skip, jump and swim across the border pretty much at will.

The implicit level of surveillance has more holes in it than armour, and simply serves to cost us all a lot of money and time.

As a wise person once pointed out, you can choose to extol the virtues of a 700mile border wall on the U.S. southern border, or the 1,300 mile open doorway.

The former not being particularly effective, in light of the latter.