[TOareaFan]

I suspect the half-hour offpeak service on Lakeshore will attract a lot of attention when it comes. My wife is looking forward having greater flexibility should she need to leave work early for whatever reason.

seriously (and this is not a personal shot at all) but does anyone else see the problem with adding 1/2 hour frequencies on one line before any other line has full two way service at all?

I, for one, think there should be a moratorium on expanded service on the Lakeshore line until the other lines reach any sort of two way service....or, charge those people far (and I mean far) less for their service because they have zero felxibility (as opposed to "greater"/"not greater").

daily rant over...back to work!

 

[DavidH]

seriously (and this is not a personal shot at all) but does anyone else see the problem with adding 1/2 hour frequencies on one line before any other line has full two way service at all?

So GO should not improve service on the lines where they can because some lines don't yet have the trackage that would allow all-day service?

I agree there is a bit of a fairness issue there, but GO has to deal with the real world in which it's not possible to do everything at the same time. So long as GO is actively working towards all day service on the other lines, I have no problem with improving Lakeshore service now.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[TOareaFan]

So GO should not improve service on the lines where they can because some lines don't yet have the trackage that would allow all-day service?

I agree there is a bit of a fairness issue there, but GO has to deal with the real world in which it's not possible to do everything at the same time. So long as GO is actively working towards all day service on the other lines, I have no problem with improving Lakeshore service now.

Just my opinion, of course.

Maybe I went too far...but, at a minimum, I would want to know (and I would simply accept their "word" if they could provide it) that any cost in adding the additional service on the Lakeshore would not, if not spent there, contribute to more quickly evening the service levels. It is hard for me to believe that money spent on the Lakeshore would not assist in more quickly bringing full service elsewhere.

 

[RedRocket191]

It's not like GO isn't working on it.

2010 will see hourly service on to at least Newmarket and at least Markham. Hourly service to at least Brampton will begin once the Georgetown South EA moves forward. I say as soon as the infrastructure is in place it should be brought online, regardless of where the status of the other projects.

Tthe cost of increasing the Lakeshore frequency is not affecting these other projects.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's not like GO isn't working on it.

yes they are...finally.

Tthe cost of increasing the Lakeshore frequency is not affecting these other projects.

How can we say that? There is a cost to increasing Lakeshore frequency....no? So that comes out of the availible pot(s) of money....no? Would applying a bigger share of the pot(s) of money to other lines not speed up the construction projects that will ultimately bring two way-every day-all day service to those lines?

 

[DavidH]

How can we say that? There is a cost to increasing Lakeshore frequency....no? So that comes out of the availible pot(s) of money....no? Would applying a bigger share of the pot(s) of money to other lines not speed up the construction projects that will ultimately bring two way-every day-all day service to those lines?

It's not as if additional money can speed up other projects. Projects need EA, design, agreement of CN/CP as ROW holders, property expropriation, etc, before they can get to the construction phase. Even with infinite dollars available, they can only progress so fast.

And at this point, the work required to get all-day service on Lakeshore is done, or nearly done. It would be silly (I want to type a stronger word, really) to sit on this infrastructure and not use it. Once the capital budget has been spent and the work done, the operational costs of running more trains on the line is not all that high, and it comes out of a separate budget anyway (e.g. mostly the budget line item called "GO Lakeshore line rider's waller")

I can understand the frustration of users of other lines. GO started on lakeshore and sometimes it must have seemed like Lakeshore gets all of the attention. But it's not as if work on other lines is being held back deliberately to screw those users in favour of Lakeshore users. As stated earlier in this thread, all day service is apparently coming to two other lines next year.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's not as if additional money can speed up other projects. Projects need EA, design, agreement of CN/CP as ROW holders, property expropriation, etc, before they can get to the construction phase. Even with infinite dollars available, they can only progress so fast.

And at this point, the work required to get all-day service on Lakeshore is done, or nearly done.

I really don't want to drag this out....as it appears I am the only one who feels like I do so.....clearly....I am a statistical outlier....but, to be clear, Lakeshore already has all day service.....everyday, both directions....what I reacted to here was someone suggesting the importance of the coming increase in frequencies to every 30 minutes in off-peak times.

Again, I don't want to belabour the point but....I understand that there is a natural limiter in the early days of a project to how fast it can go (stuies, EA, design, etc.) but it is hard for me to "get" that none of the projects on none of the other lines is at the point where some additional cash now would shrink the delivery of full service by a few months......surely, if the service is coming next year to two of the lines....they must be past that EA/design/study phase....no?


Oh...BTW...no one said or implied that it was a deliberate screwing of the other lines. If I hit you on the head with a stick....it hurts just the same whether I meant it or not.

 

[DavidH]

I really don't want to drag this out....as it appears I am the only one who feels like I do so.....clearly....I am a statistical outlier

Probably not. I admit my bias - I live on the Lakeshore line, so the service improvements on it are important to me (at least indirectly via my wife who takes it every day). I do think that a lot of people will find the half hour service very noteworthy when it comes.

But obviously, the introduction of all-day service to other lines next year will be just as noteworthy to other riders - and getting back to the original thought here - will show that the fares are going someplace useful (in terms of operating costs, not capital).

but it is hard for me to "get" that none of the projects on none of the other lines is at the point where some additional cash now would shrink the delivery of full service by a few months......surely, if the service is coming next year to two of the lines....they must be past that EA/design

But if the work has been contracted out, it's really not feasible to add money to it to get it done sooner. The contract already has a price and a delivery deadline. And further, sometimes the projects can't get done any faster even if you want to, because some things take as long as they take.

On the other hand, perhaps there are some things that can be accelerated - and these might be good things to look for as "shovel ready" stimulus, since they're already ongoing projects.

So yeah - I hear what you're saying, I really do. Here's hoping there's money for GO2020 in tomorrow's budget so that some of these other works can get going as soon as possible.

 

[ShonTron]

The one point that TOareafan has is that the fare system as it is has inequities - fares on the Georgetown, for example, are higher than those on the other lines by small margins, but until last year, GO wouldn't even provide hourly bus service to Union, and service improvements on that line in particular have been slow and far apart. On weekday afternoons/evenings the service is still pathetic inbound. The excuse used to raise all fares, when only some corridors benefit from touted service improvements, is not entirely fair either, and there's a point to be made here.

Though half-hourly service on Lakeshore is indeed a big deal. No longer will people be so tied to train schedules, though we will have to see how GO designs the schedules!

 

[TOareaFan]

The one point that TOareafan has

one point...that's all I get for all of this thoughtful posting?

 

[nfitz]

seriously (and this is not a personal shot at all) but does anyone else see the problem with adding 1/2 hour frequencies on one line before any other line has full two way service at all?

So Air Canada shouldn't fly multiple flights each day to Montreal, when they only fly one a day to Seattle?

Lakeshore demand is MUCH higher than any other route. And they have been promising service increases now since the early 1970s when they cancelled the Gardiner Expressway.

I can't think of a single line where service improvements have been waiting as long as Lakeshore!

 

[TOareaFan]

So Air Canada shouldn't fly multiple flights each day to Montreal, when they only fly one a day to Seattle?

Are the people in Seattle watching their elected officials use their taxes to support the service to Montreal? If they are then they probably have as much complaint about this as people in Milton do about inequitable service levels. Until their money (not fare money but involuntary taxes that they must pay) is used for this....then I think they should just enjoy the one flight a day they have....

Lakeshore demand is MUCH higher than any other route.

If you believe that service produces familiarity and reliability that produces more riders....then the fact that demand is higher on the Lakeshore line than it is on, say, the Georgetown line is hardly surprising.........the other lines, then, have a higher chance of generating enough new revenue from fares to pay for the expansions.

 

[lordmandeep]

I would imagine Milton line and Georgetown would easily rival the Lake shore line if they had the same size stations and service easily.

A ton of people in these areas still drive in with their cars and even I have to once a week due to poor inbound service after 2pm.

 

[Dan416]

I would imagine Milton line and Georgetown would easily rival the Lake shore line if they had the same size stations and service easily.

A ton of people in these areas still drive in with their cars and even I have to once a week due to poor inbound service after 2pm.

Totally agreed. There's nothing particular about where the Lakeshore line goes that makes it busier than Milton or Georgetown in particular, at the very least, in regards to Mississauga (which is served by all three lines). Lakeshore has been around longer, but the parts of Mississauga served by Milton and Georgetown are just as dense if not denser than the parts of Mississauga served by Lakeshore, so it stands to reason that the stations along those lines could serve just as many commuters as the Lakeshore stations provided we had equivalent service (given time of course as people change their habits and get used to all-day GO service).

Lakeshore has the following two stations in Mississauga: Port Credit, Clarkson, with Long Branch just across the border

Milton has: Dixie, Cooksville, Erindale, Streetsville, Meadowvale, Lisgar

Georgetown has: Malton

 

[CDL.TO]

I believe that the Milton line has the potential to be the busiest GO line per kilometre of track. The fact that many of GO's busiest stations are on the line, with only 6 rush-hour direction trains a day, is extremely telling.