[Sauga89]

That isn't what the notice says...

Don't think they are burying the 230 kV lines from Pickering NGS. There are local lines in the area (pictured below). The notice also states they will bring the lines to the rail corridor. Again, this has nothing to do with the high-voltage feeder lines from the plant.

View attachment 716694

My apologies. I was trying to convey the vagaries of the notice without assuming too much or too little. Perhaps a better phrasing would be "Metrolinx is burying at least some, and possibly all, of the wires in a section of hydro corridor in Pickering."

It's not the first utility crossing of the rail line to be buried in that area, either.

I did debate not posting about it. But it is the third construction notice for a utility relocation above a GO line in the last three weeks, and the notice specifically says the work is tied to GO expansion investigative work. Granted, most notices claim that, but still, three notices in a month feels like a lot.

 

[kotsy]

Metrolinx and the city spent nearly $100M on SmartTrack stations that may never be built, documents reveal

In confidential documents seen by the Star shows that roughly $97 million has been spent on stops at King-Liberty and Finch-Kennedy that were indefinitely deferred in 2024.

www.thestar.com

paywall bypass:

https://archive.is/C904k

 

[Northern Light]

Metrolinx and the city spent nearly $100M on SmartTrack stations that may never be built, documents reveal

In confidential documents seen by the Star shows that roughly $97 million has been spent on stops at King-Liberty and Finch-Kennedy that were indefinitely deferred in 2024.

www.thestar.com

paywall bypass:

https://archive.is/C904k

From the above:

Ahem....590M? For a station entirely above ground, almost entirely on publicly owned land, what little land acquisition was required could be offset by subsequent development thereof?

A completely underground subway station 2 years ago was running 400M per station on a deep-bore site............this is ~50% higher.

Two Words: Forensic Audit.

 

[Jonny5]

From the above:

View attachment 716962

Ahem....590M? For a station entirely above ground, almost entirely on publicly owned land, what little land acquisition was required could be offset by subsequent development thereof?

A completely underground subway station 2 years ago was running 400M per station on a deep-bore site............this is ~50% higher.

Two Words: Forensic Audit.

There isn't anything to audit since they never did it, but I am imagining it's scope creep here in that that a King-Liberty station plan likely included massive changes to the underpass of the corridor on King Street, and also a huge change for utilities, sewage, and critical storm water upgrades (remember how often that area floods) and then the station on top of all that. They probably wanted to fix all of it in one go and it would be a transformative but extraordinarily disruptive project. Someone would have to pay for years of bus and streetcar diversions like they are now for the Ontario line at Queen.

 

[Northern Light]

There isn't anything to audit since they never did it

There are tens of millions out the door on design (90-100%) and early works) so there is some audit trail for money-as spend, but the estimates and designs are the cost predictors and they're available (if Metrolinx chooses)

, but I am imagining it's scope creep here

Certainly I think there is money being directed to things other than the immediate station project. But a fair question is are those other things the responsibility of the City, or this project?

in that that a King-Liberty station plan likely included massive changes to the underpass of the corridor on King Street,

Possible, but I was unaware of any significant changes to the Underpass contemplated by this project, possible that slipped past me.

and also a huge change for utilities, sewage, and critical storm water upgrades (remember how often that area floods) and then the station on top of all that.

Metrolinx would not be authorized under this agreement to carry out works that far site so far as I am aware. I may try to do some digging.

 

[Amare]

How in God's living green planet does it cost nearly $600 million (for King-Liberty), and $400 million (for Finch-Kennedy) for 2 straight forward above ground and bare boned train stations.

There is something seriously deficiently wrong in the way we build major infrastructure projects in this province. Period, full stop.

The fact that most politicians dont see problem with it, means that they dont have any problem with pissing away tens of millions of dollars unnecessarily. It's no wonder the general public gets frustrated when there are cost overruns, but then when the public complains politicians take people for fools and say that there is a "gravy train" that needs to be cut at any and all costs.

Well yes, there is a gravy train: pissing away tens of millions of dollars unnecessarily for no reason whatsoever on project soft costs on lining the coffers of consultants.

But apparently it's ok, let's cheap out on costs like adequate weather protection at stations (because that's apparently gravy), but we're perfectly content at shelling out hundreds of millions for consultant fees and screwed up contracts.

 

[robmausser]

How in God's living green planet does it cost nearly $600 million (for King-Liberty), and $400 million (for Finch-Kennedy) for 2 straight forward above ground and bare boned train stations.

There is something seriously deficiently wrong in the way we build major infrastructure projects in this province. Period, full stop.

The fact that most politicians dont see problem with it, means that they dont have any problem with pissing away tens of millions of dollars unnecessarily. It's no wonder the general public gets frustrated when there are cost overruns, but then when the public complains politicians take people for fools and say that there is a "gravy train" that needs to be cut at any and all costs.

Well yes, there is a gravy train: pissing away tens of millions of dollars unnecessarily for no reason whatsoever on project soft costs on lining the coffers of consultants.

But apparently it's ok, let's cheap out on costs like adequate weather protection at stations (because that's apparently gravy), but we're perfectly content at shelling out hundreds of millions for consultant fees and screwed up contracts.

View attachment 717008

View attachment 717009

I believe this is basically the same thing as the elevated Eglinton West extension study where they designed massive stations to make the cost so crazy expensive it justified tunneling instead. Which is what they wanted in the first place.

I am tempted to believe that the costs of these stations are nothing more than an attempt to cancel a project tied to a disgraced former mayor.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

No excuses for ML’s lack of transparency and wasted time/money here, but there’s a consolation to cancelling King-Liberty. The station would have reduced the ROW capacity.

Without platforms at King-Liberty, you can fit 8 tracks from Lansdowne to USRC. That’s 2 for the Barrie line and 6 through Bloor GO (hypothetically 2 for UP/Kitchener local, 2 for Alto/Via/Kitchener express, 2 for Milton).

I think there’s more value in reserving that space than delivering something useful now that will limit us in the future (much like what’s being done to the Lakeshore East corridor now).

 

[Mihairokov]

Metrolinx and the city spent nearly $100M on SmartTrack stations that may never be built, documents reveal

In confidential documents seen by the Star shows that roughly $97 million has been spent on stops at King-Liberty and Finch-Kennedy that were indefinitely deferred in 2024.

www.thestar.com

paywall bypass:

https://archive.is/C904k

 

[cplchanb]

its either corruption or incompetence. take your pick.

 

[Amare]

its either corruption or incompetence. take your pick.

Well i mean we have both here in Ontario, so it's been a wonderful combination.

And the best part about it is, that's nobody faces any consequences for either one.

 

[Neil]

its either corruption or incompetence. take your pick.

Um, could be both.

 

[Dan416]

But apparently it's ok, let's cheap out on costs like adequate weather protection at stations (because that's apparently gravy), but we're perfectly content at shelling out hundreds of millions for consultant fees and screwed up contracts.

I feel like we don't talk about this enough. One of the reasons people are so pro-subway is because there is protection from the elements. The lack of weather protection on parts of Eglinton and most of Finch and Hurontario and most of GO is a huge problem. IDC how often the train is supposed to come that you aren't supposed to be waiting long--the subways come more than any other rail we have, and they get adequate weather protection.

Our climate demands adequate weather protection. Whether it's from rain, snow or sun.