[TOareaFan]

^I'll review all of that when I get a few spare hours.....but reading your inserted text may be answering the question I posed to you about your definition of "soon"...seems as we sit here in the fall of 2014 your opinion of "soon' is sometime between 2020 and 2023 (so 6 to 9 years).

In the context of the current work being done (the GTS project) you may want to look at this page which has not changed since the project started and the numbers in it continue to be confirmed to me in direct communication with GO/ML

http://goweb02.gotransit.com/gts/en/faqs/default.aspx

(click on the Kitchener line tab).

 

[crs1026]

The Provincial position I pointed to quotes Glen Murray as saying it will happen in five years, but that was in the spring before the election, and he's not on the file anymore. More recently, Liz Sandals has been quoted as saying ten years:
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...enhanced-go-train-service-to-guelph-on-track/
Bruce McCuaig's comments that I cited have a similar dose of reality to them.

I do believe the numbers you pointed to on the GTS web site are the most dependable for 2015-2016, anyways. That site also says the GTS project will wind down next year. It will be interesting to see what time lines the politicians provide when they declare victory at the UPX grand opening.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

. More recently, Liz Sandals has been quoted as saying ten years:

Hang on though - that's all-day two-way express service to Guelph/Kitchener. Until a year or so ago there wasn't even serious talk of all-day 2-way service to Guelph, let alone express. However they've been promising all-day 2-way service to Brampton for years. They are 2 different projects.

 

[TOareaFan]

The Provincial position I pointed to quotes Glen Murray as saying it will happen in five years, but that was in the spring before the election, and he's not on the file anymore.

Prior to the election, Mr. Murray trotted out a bunch of stuff that had not been previously discussed. Most prominent of those were electrified 15 minute service on all publicly owned GO lines within 10 years and the HSR to KW/London. The article you link (made during a campaign stop in KW) I believe is the only place where he gave any specific timeline to any one line. The operating "promise" was all done within 10 years. (see below for the ML response)

More recently, Liz Sandals has been quoted as saying ten years:
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...enhanced-go-train-service-to-guelph-on-track/

I would give Ms Sandals a lot more credibility if the article did not contain clear/obvious/blatant misstatement of facts:

With the Goderich-Exeter lease expiring and the purchase made, that hurdle can now be cleared. The province already owned the track from Georgetown east to Union Station, in downtown Toronto.

The provinces already owns the stretch from Bramalea to Union....the bit between Georgetown and Bramalea is still owned by CN and causes a real problem unless all of these trains have the ability to lift off and fly over that stretch.

Bruce McCuaig's comments that I cited have a similar dose of reality to them.

Bruce McCuaig stayed silent during the election as Mr. Murray ran around making all of these transit promises.....then days after the vote expressed strong doubt that the RER 15 minute electrified service on all lines could be delivered within the promised 10 year time frame...but he was going to enjoy trying to deliver as much of it as possible.

I do believe the numbers you pointed to on the GTS web site are the most dependable for 2015-2016, anyways. That site also says the GTS project will wind down next year. It will be interesting to see what time lines the politicians provide when they declare victory at the UPX grand opening.

- Paul

Metrolinx will not comment on when any additional service will be available on the line....nor will they comment on how much will be available (simply repeating the "up to" 29 trains line...which - to be cynical - could be achieved by adding 1 train).

Again, our discussion really comes down to what your definition of soon is. Soon to me means 12 - 18 months....when you said (at the start of all this) AD2W service was coming soon to KW line, I thought you might have new information....you don't seem to so I have to assume you have a much more liberal definition of "soon".

 

[drum118]

Oct 28
Some photos of Hamilton James North Station. What I saw, going to be very hard to have this station ready for the Pan Am games.

Only one of the 2 tracks can go south(east) of the platforms since there is only enough room for one track getting pass the old CN Station, unless a switch is cut into the current CN line track.

 

[muller877]

Hang on though - that's all-day two-way express service to Guelph/Kitchener. Until a year or so ago there wasn't even serious talk of all-day 2-way service to Guelph, let alone express. However they've been promising all-day 2-way service to Brampton for years. They are 2 different projects.

Focusing on Guelph to Kitchener now that they own this stretch...how much will it cost to rebuild. As I understand there are a lot of stretches that are almost beyond repair. Will they build the second track brand new and up to current standards and keep the old track as the "passing track" for now? And then, when demand warrants upgrade the second one? Or will they just bite the bullet and upgrade the entire section to 2 tracks right away?

 

[nfitz]

Focusing on Guelph to Kitchener now that they own this stretch...how much will it cost to rebuild. As I understand there are a lot of stretches that are almost beyond repair. Will they build the second track brand new and up to current standards and keep the old track as the "passing track" for now? And then, when demand warrants upgrade the second one? Or will they just bite the bullet and upgrade the entire section to 2 tracks right away?

I've walked and driven over various crossing of the track west of Georgetown. It doesn't seem particularly poor. The structures don't look like a big issue.

I'd assume that day one they'd simply catch up on any backlogged maintenance, and try and eliminate any temporary slow orders, if there are any. There didn't seem to be any drastic concerns in the EA for the double-tracking, which was completed a while ago. Then at some point in the future they'd start adding track. I don't see that being particularly soon though, as they probably want to figure out how this fits in to their HSR proposals, as I'd think some of the new structures may have to go from 1 to 3 or 4 tracks, instead of 2.

 

[DC83]

Great updates, Drum!
I agree.. Seeing this in person, there's zero chance of this being ready by July.

 

[mpd618]

I've walked and driven over various crossing of the track west of Georgetown. It doesn't seem particularly poor. The structures don't look like a big issue.

I'd assume that day one they'd simply catch up on any backlogged maintenance, and try and eliminate any temporary slow orders, if there are any. There didn't seem to be any drastic concerns in the EA for the double-tracking, which was completed a while ago. Then at some point in the future they'd start adding track. I don't see that being particularly soon though, as they probably want to figure out how this fits in to their HSR proposals, as I'd think some of the new structures may have to go from 1 to 3 or 4 tracks, instead of 2.

Based on quotes I've seen and on my conversation with GO Transit's VP of operations at the announcement of the track purchase, they are looking to specifically double-track the corridor. They are currently determining how much work it will be to do the grade separations they want for all-day service.

 

[nfitz]

Based on quotes I've seen and on my conversation with GO Transit's VP of operations at the announcement of the track purchase, they are looking to specifically double-track the corridor. They are currently determining how much work it will be to do the grade separations they want for all-day service.

Ah, that's interesting. So does GO push ahead with their long-planned doubletracking and ignore the HSR requirements? I'd have assumed they'd have dealt with both at once.

But I suppose that given that GO isn't the one dealing with HSR, that there's no reason for GO to worry about that, so I guess they push ahead. I wonder what point the higher powers realise the left-hand and right-hand aren't communicating.

Perhaps for the best - it could be years before the HSR alignment is finalized.

 

[drum118]

Oct 24 KW Photo now on line and a lot for the grade separation.

The one thing I noticed from the first photo of the new bridge in Aug and this one, Stiffeners where added to the north side which is now the centre bream. Odd to see that, since they are shop welded in the first place and looks like they are bolted in place.

New 3rd track will be to the right

Future Bridge

 

[junctionist]

That's a lot nicer than the Weston Road bridge.

 

[drum118]

That's a lot nicer than the Weston Road bridge.

More expensive at $50+ million

 

[BurlOak]

Oct 24 KW Photo now on line and a lot for the grade separation.

The one thing I noticed from the first photo of the new bridge in Aug and this one, Stiffeners where added to the north side which is now the centre bream. Odd to see that, since they are shop welded in the first place and looks like they are bolted in place.

The stiffeners are not added to the exterior face for aesthetics. The beams with stiffeners only on one side are heavier than the beams with stiffeners on both sides. This is common on highway bridges as well. Usually, the exterior faces do not have stiffeners, but if you look at the other face, and the interior beams, they usually have stiffeners.

The stiffeners are bolted instead of welded because it is a better fatigue category for cyclic loading. Highway bridges usually have stiffeners that are welded, but for aggressive designs with shallow beams (maybe needed if vertical clearance is an issue), then they are bolts as well.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

That's a lot nicer than the Weston Road bridge.

I walk under the Weston Road bridge almost daily. I don't think it looks too bad now that it is complete. There could be some improvements in the surrounding area, but I'll save that discussion for the GTS thread.