News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 9.4K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 5.3K     0 

At Mount Pleasant Station in Brampton, the tunnel itself is used to connect between different Brampton Transit bus routes. At other stations, like Brampton, the platform and tunnel is used as a pedestrian throughway, though if you hang around the platform too long, you might get yelled at by a dumb old man contracted by VIA simply to open and close the station doors.

I've only seen the GO-Po check fares on platforms at Union Station (though Platform 3 is exempt; it is designated for through passage between the headhouse and the bus terminal), or of customers immediately disembarking trains.
After events I always thought that checking on the platform would be the most effective enforcement of PoP.

When a TFC match ends there are lots of people on the platforms waiting for trains....once they get on the trains there is virtually no way to check payment as the trains are just too crowded.....now, those crowds end up meaning there are lots of GO staff on the platforms too...but if they added spot checking payment to their duties, word would get around fast and anyone thinking that it really is just a free ride home from the match would think again.
 
I guess this belongs here....but Metrolinx have, apparently, purchased property in Brampton....an office building (which has some surface parking behind) that has always had trouble leasing up (not sure it has ever been more than 50% leased). If you are familiar with the area, this is the property.

upload_2016-3-31_16-5-1.png


source: http://cfbb.ca/
 

Attachments

  • upload_2016-3-31_16-5-1.png
    upload_2016-3-31_16-5-1.png
    2.2 MB · Views: 1,265
I'm presuming your referring to a freight crew where that can be the case as it's not with passenger equipment since they can I'll explain the procedure below for those who are not aware of it on this board.

Really good explanation, thanks. I wonder if the higher brake pipe pressure (versus freight) is what compels GO to use a stiffer, less malleable model of gladhand .... or, once connected, maybe it buys some added prevention of unplanned separations.

There was a time when CN and CP ran Budd RDC schedules that separated and joined en route. The service to Bruce County comes to mind. It can't have been easy making that work in the middle of winter, but it was done for years. I have wondered how long it will be before MU cabling is replaced with wifi or Bluetooth instead of physical cables. For non-locomotive hauled trains, the requirement for physical connection of the air and control systems is an artifact of steam age railroading - it doesn't have to be that way.

- Paul
 
There was a time when CN and CP ran Budd RDC schedules that separated and joined en route. The service to Bruce County comes to mind.
As well as being done in the past in Canada, that is still done in various jurisdictions in the US, notably Septa, as demonstrated to the driver trainees in the Silverliner V vid I posted prior. Normally it would be yard crews coupling passenger consists unless "joining and dividing trainsets" as the Brits say, where this is still common-place.

The SEPTA situation is discussed in this forum, mentioned before, but well worth mentioning again (Dowling, one of the regulars here, is a regular there:
[Re: Coupling / de-coupling Passenger Trains

by dowlingm » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:04 am

Not commuter but VIA Rail divides/combines some trains such as Montreal-Jonquiere/Senneterre (at Hervey Junction) and Toronto-Montreal/Ottawa (at Brockville yard)
dowlingm
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Toronto, ON ]
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=159788

It can't have been easy making that work in the middle of winter, but it was done for years.
Chicago is discussed in a number of articles as being very demanding in terms of temperature extremes as that relates to automatic couplers. If they work there, they'll work in Toronto. Chicago has had its share of split and joined routes over the years.
Really good explanation, thanks. I wonder if the higher brake pipe pressure (versus freight) is what compels GO to use a stiffer, less malleable model of gladhand .... or, once connected, maybe it buys some added prevention of unplanned separations.

There was a time when CN and CP ran Budd RDC schedules that separated and joined en route. The service to Bruce County comes to mind. It can't have been easy making that work in the middle of winter, but it was done for years. I have wondered how long it will be before MU cabling is replaced with wifi or Bluetooth instead of physical cables. For non-locomotive hauled trains, the requirement for physical connection of the air and control systems is an artifact of steam age railroading - it doesn't have to be that way.

- Paul
This is already done in freight with 'helpers' added in and controlled by radio, but to take this dialog forward as you rightly state "the requirement for physical connection of the air and control systems is an artifact of steam age railroading - it doesn't have to be that way":

[Introduction
Originally designed for subways or metros, the electro-pneumatic brake has more recently been used on main line passenger railways and some specialised freight operations. Its main advantage over the air brake is its speed of control and quick on-vehicle reaction times, giving instantaneous control of the whole train to the driver. Its speed of operation makes it ideal for automatic train operation (ATO). E.P. braking is not the same as ECP braking. ECP brakes have been introduced recently in an attempt to overcome the drawbacks of the air brake system on long freight trains. An article on this site here ECP Brakes has been written by Randy Buchter.][...]
http://www.railway-technical.com/ep-brakes.shtml

CP, of course, had been running an experimental ECP consist over the Rockies to test rolling stock and results. You'd think after Lac Megantic there would have been a lot more written on it. I'll dig on that, but last time I checked, it had been shelved.

For passenger though, one would hope that Metrolinx is hot on this....

Addendum to prior post on automatic couplers, and what AMT are using on their Bomardier MR-90s (25kV Deux-Montagnes lines):

[The AAR/APTA TypeH TightLock coupler is a Janney automatic coupler typically used on North American mainline passenger cars. TypeH couplers have mechanical features to reduce slack action and improve safety, but remains compatible with Janney/AAR TypeE and TypeF couplers. TypeH couplers may also be fitted with automatic air and electrical connections. Management and development of TypeH coupler standards have been transferred from the AAR to American Public Transportation Association (APTA). The AAR/APTA standard mounting height for TypeH couplers is 34.5 inches (876.3 mm) ATOR.[1]

Rail operators that commonly use TypeH couplers include Amtrak, Agence métropolitaine de transport, GO Transit, Via Rail and West Coast Express. TypeH couplers have also seen very limited use on British Railways electric multiple units (EMUs) such as the Bombardier "Electrostar", though recently, Dellner or Scharfenberg couplers are being used instead.][...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tightlock_coupling

*Agence métropolitaine de transport, GO Transit*.

Comments?
 
Last edited:
CP, of course, had been running an experimental ECP consist over the Rockies to test rolling stock and results. You'd think after Lac Megantic there would have been a lot more written on it. I'll dig on that, but last time I checked, it had been shelved.

For passenger though, one would hope that Metrolinx is hot on this....but on the other hand....groan...

I don't expect this technology to spread on freight railroads any time soon. The number of cars, and the requirement that every car interface with every other car in the North American system, over lengthy consists, and often going years without any systemmatic maintenance in a home shop, makes it much less practical and much riskier.

For passenger equipment, which never leaves home rails, runs in short consists, and has potential for very frequent checkup and tuneup, it's much simpler.

I don't think a single operator such as Metrolinx should be looked to for the necessary validation and approval testing. It has to be a vendor aiming the product (and spreading development cost) at multiple buyers. Transport Canada does not hesitate to certify airplanes that have only electronic connections between the cockpit and the control surfaces.....and cars that have only electronic connections with the motor. The difference in those cases is, there has been a very lengthy and costly testing process up front, and the technology is generally viewed as proven. So it can be done, but needs an industry basis, possibly an international one.

- Paul
 
I don't think a single operator such as Metrolinx should be looked to for the necessary validation and approval testing. It has to be a vendor aiming the product (and spreading development cost) at multiple buyers. Transport Canada does not hesitate to certify airplanes that have only electronic connections between the cockpit and the control surfaces.....and cars that have only electronic connections with the motor. The difference in those cases is, there has been a very lengthy and costly testing process up front, and the technology is generally viewed as proven. So it can be done, but needs an industry basis, possibly an international one.
Ah, but Paul, fully automatic couplers are certified virtually *worldwide* in all but (apparently) Canada. In the US, it is the purview of the APTA, and SEPTA and quite a few other jurisdictions use them, as detailed in this forum. Are there 'temporal conditions' attached to that? Perhaps, that's still a gray area as to actual regs, I and a few others are still digging on that. MD comes across quite a few allusions to that in GO/Metolinx' own publications.

Let's concentrate on the Dellner coupler, since it claims to be 'system-wide compatible' (I find the claim a little hard to believe, but this company is now the world-leader, so until proven otherwise, I'll have to accept it):
[The Swedish-made Dellner coupling,[18] is a proprietary version of the Scharfenberg coupler, connecting both vehicle, pneumatics and electronics at the same time. The patented energy absorption D-BOX technology allows coupling at speeds of up to 15 kilometres per hour (9.3 mph) with no structural damage, and up to 36 kilometres per hour (22 mph) with deformation but with the vehicles remaining on track. The patented D-REX system provides Ethernet high speed data connection at speeds of 100 Mbit/s.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_coupling#Dellner

Let's flip this over, since you did the set-up spiel on progress: why would any progressive jurisdiction *NOT* push to recognize this? Maybe we shouldn't allow jet engines in aircraft, since the onus is on others to prove them?

Added piece of info to further my point on the US being far ahead of us:


Coupling adapter for use between AAR couplers on locomotives and WABCO N-2 couplers fitted to commuter rail multiple units at New York's Pennsylvania Station. The adapter is seen from the bottom

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...n.agr.JPG/220px-CouplerAdapterPennStn.agr.JPG
 
Last edited:
Bright Idea for SEPTA: Regional Rail Lite (PhillyMag.com)

Less costly, more frequent service could become possible as soon as next year. Will SEPTA seize the day?

By Sandy Smith | January 30, 2014 at 10:38 am

[This week’s big news out of 1234 Market Street is that, as part of its big capital project catch-up list, SEPTA may purchase bilevel electric multiple-unit (EMU) railcars to increase capacity on its Regional Rail lines.
[...]
...more capacity is needed on Regional Rail, and bilevel railcars are a good way to provide it at peak commute times. But what about the rest of the day?

Thanks to a proposed rule change, it is now possible to contemplate a solution that would add off-peak capacity while achieving one of the goals recommended in my earlier post on ways to get more riders on board public transit in Philly.

The Philadelphia City Planning Commission likes this idea so much that it touted it on its Philadelphia Planeto blog last week. Boston is seriously considering this idea, and we should too.

It’s this: Run service on the Regional Rail lines using lightweight diesel multiple-unit (DMU) railcars.

Service of this type already operates in our region: New Jersey Transit’s River Line, which connects Trenton and Camden via a freight railroad line. New Jersey is currently in the process of extending this service south from Camden to Glassboro.

It’s proved more popular than originally forecast, but it cannot reach its full potential because of Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) safety rules. Because the River Line diesels do not meet FRA crashworthiness standards for mainline railroad equipment, they must be kept separate from those heavier railcars. The way the rule works on lines that both types of cars use is that the two types of equipment cannot use the line at the same time. That’s why you can’t travel between Pennsauken and Bordentown on the River Line after about 10:30 p.m.

The Obama administration has pledged to get rid of this “temporal separation” requirement this year. That opens up a world of possibilities for expanding Regional Rail service, and the lightweight railcars are the key to that world.
[...]
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/01/30/septa-regional-rail-lite-rapid-transit/

Here is the blog from the City of Philadelphia Planning Department:
Great ideas from Boston
January 17, 2014 | Tagged: Citywide Vision, Economic Development, Making It Happen, septa, Transportation
[...]

The fact that the new building is adding on yet again to our concourse system and therefore connecting directly to Suburban Station (and with a slightly longer walk, subways and trolleys) is fantastic. But might there come a point when we will need more or different service? How close are we to that point? And what’s the big idea that solves the problem at a reasonable price?

Well, it kind of depends on where everyone decides to live (and work, since we’re talking about any and all future growth). Our regional rail system is gaining riders every year, and is at or above capacity on many trains each day. Fortunately, SEPTA’s recent state funding package means they can go ahead and think about expanding the fleet within a reasonable timeframe. That simple act – creating longer trains – would certainly alleviate some of the problem. But what about frequency? What if longer trains at rush hour don’t help, when people are working different hours in different places? And while we’re seeing a TON of development in transit-rich neighborhoods and inner suburbs, we’re also seeing growth in places that aren’t as connected. What about those areas?

The answer may lie in Philadelphia2035. It wasn’t born there, but it made it in there for a reason. The “it” in question? A concept we call “CityRail”, a fancy (and potentially silly) name for a simple concept: what if you could figure out a way to run higher frequency service along regional rail routes, and maybe even add infill stations here and there, thereby allowing people to interact with regional rail the way you would with a subway. No need to check a schedule, no need for special fare. A completely new way to conceive of existing infrastructure.

MUCH easier said than done. There’s a lot to consider: 1) How many (and what kind) of vehicles would we need to increase service to a given interval (say, every 15 minutes)? 2) Do we have space to store these vehicles and room to fit them in when the Center City Commuter Tunnel is often backed up already? 3) If you want them to behave like a subway, does that mean you need high-level platforms along the whole route? 4) Could SEPTA make enough money charging a city transit fare for a regional rail service? 5) And where in the heck would you fit additional stations?

Lo and behold, an early answer arrives from Boston. Massachusetts Dept of Transportation (MassDOT) released a five-year spending plan along with a longer-term vision for transit investment in Boston’s transit system, the MBTA. While there are some actual expansions proposed – new infrastructure where there is currently none – much of the improved service hinges on a simple thing: a rule change from the Federal Railroad Administration that would allow lighter vehicles – what you might think of as light rail – to run on corridors previously reserved for heavier locomotive-driven trains. Mixed traffic, so to speak. Boston’s plan: buy a bunch of DMU’s (diesel multiple unit vehicles), run them on existing and to-be-refurbished regional rail and abandoned freight routes at higher frequencies, and allow the existing regional rail stock to skip some of the inner stations, providing more traditional commuter service to outlying areas.]
[...]
http://philadelphiaplaneto.com/looking-forward-on-friday-great-ideas-from-boston/

And the Boston Report itself:
[...][In a 65-page document, MassDOT Secretary Richard Davey outlined the goals of the agency, which includes projects on the state’s highways and bridges, as well as critical infrastructure changes along the tracks of the MBTA and Commuter Rail system. According to the report, over the next five fiscal years, MassDOT plans on spending roughly $12.4 billion on transit projects across the state.
[...]
If all goes according to plan, in the next 10 years MassDOT would like to roll out their “vision for the MBTA in 2024,” where additional DMU lines would run alongside existing Commuter Rail tracks and make connections to existing stations a lot easier.

According to a map produced by MassDOT as part of the report, the Indigo Line would expand in the next decade and make loops into Fort Point, near the Convention Center, as well as provide trips to Back Bay, and introduce a connector that could swing into Cambridge before making its way to North Station from Allston. There’s also a proposal to have DMUs travel alongside the Lowell and Rockport Lines, connecting to Boston.


A closer look at the map, specifically highlighting major points in the city, shows you how hopping on a proposed DMU train on the Indigo Line would help skip multiple station transfers. The darker purple line indicates where the DMUs would run. (Click to enlarge):


Click to enlarge

According to a Globe report that detailed the “Track 61” project, where an independent DMU line would run service from the Seaport District to Copley, a DMU train car costs around $4 million. In Davey’s capital plan, MassDOT would like to put $252 million toward DMUs—as well as toward expanding Silver Line services—to provide “reliable public transit to underserved communities in the Fairmount Corridor of Boston, Chelsea, and the North Shore.”

No DMUs currently operate in Massachusetts, according to T officials. But the Indigo Line will come into play once the DMUs are active, and the T increases the frequency of service on the Fairmount line first.
[...]
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/01/09/massdot-capital-plan-proposal/

I'd say that Obama and Trudeau have something else to chat about: Bringing Commuter Rail into this century as that pertains to virtual lock-step FRA/TC regs.
 
The enthusiasm for DMUs seems to have cooled at MBTA. Maybe the changeover of operator company and the longer than expected rollout of the Rotem bilevels and HSP46 locos has caused a pause rather than a rethink.
 
The enthusiasm for DMUs seems to have cooled at MBTA. Maybe the changeover of operator company and the longer than expected rollout of the Rotem bilevels and HSP46 locos has caused a pause rather than a rethink.
I've been trying to find the official reports on that, the link that I'd posted above as part of the last article "In a 65-page document," is dead. I've been having the same problem trying to find the latest Metrolinx one 'from a private outside consultant' on the RER. Trying to navigate gov't org websites is a special kind of game that must baffle even the likes of Google.

To be clear on my stance on DMUs: They're a poor choice compared to EMUs in almost every respect, save that *until* catenary is up and energized, they're far better than nothing. Does anyone have confidence that the Weston Corridor will see catenary live in the next five years? Perhaps even ten? The Province has to do something with that corridor in the meantime, even if it means cascading bought stock to the nether regions later. Meantime, I'll see what I can find on the MBTA latest.

NYTimes ran a piece yesterday on their opening page, featured near the top:
[...][Toronto, like all big cities, has its problems. But it also has a healthy economy, well-funded public transit, beautiful neighborhoods, a vibrant street life, exceptional cultural institutions and an enviable ethnic and racial mix][...]
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/s...-envy-toronto-for-electing-rob-ford.html?_r=0

NYTimes loves Toronto, doubtless, but fare-box return (second highest in North Am after GO) and actual funding are being confused there, methinks. I always drool with envy when seeing how much the US Feds put into transit in US cities. Whether that money is well spent or not is another matter, Second Ave subway and East Side Access both *way* over budget. It remains to be seen what Toronto will get from the Feds here.

Edit to Add: Good call Dowling:

2/10/2016,
[...][An important piece of the Fairmount Line improvements hinged on acquiring diesel multiple unit trains, which were scheduled for rollout in 2018. DMUs are lighter than the line’s current trains, so can stop and start more quickly, thus trimming transit times, said Pamela “Mela” Bush-Miles, chair of Fairmount Indigo Transit Coalition and lead organizer for Greater Four Corners Action Coalition. Each DMU car carries its own power source, allowing for them to be added or removed to suit capacity needs.

So far on the Fairmount Line, three of four planned stations have been added, weekend service provided and fares dropped to subway-level prices. The installment of DMUs would mark one of the final steps in improving the line — which currently runs trains twice an hour during rush hour, compared to the 5-10 minute rush hour run-frequency of the subway lines. The greater frequency and flexibility also was expected to allow the Fairmount line schedule to better match bus schedules, eliminating long waits for transfers.

“DMUs are very crucial to increase frequency,” Bush-Miles said. “Our goal is to make sure we have the same access to transit as other parts of the city,”
[...]
As the MBTA eyes its budget deficits — considering moves like a 10 percent fare hike — DMUs are being put firmly on the backburner.
[...]
Rep. Russell Holmes said that at a Sept. 30, 2015 meeting, MBTA Secretary of Transportation Stephanie Pollack revealed that switching to DMUs is more costly than originally imagined.
[...]
Until that meeting, Holmes and fellow elected officials had believed that the new train cars could run on the existing train track.

“[Originally] we were told the technology was more mature than it was. We heard you can take the same track and put DMU’s on the track,” he said.

Not so.

Pollack told Holmes that using DMUs — or Electric Multiple Units, a more widely-produced kind of train car, promoted by some transit activists as an easier-to-procure alternative DMUs — would require changes to the track and the station heights.

The other barrier: When the MBTA put out a bid for DMU procurement, only one company responded. This hampers the agency’s ability to negotiate on price, deliverables and other aspects.

All in all: the project did not look favorable to the cost-beleaguered MBTA, Pollack told the officials. She advised them to drop the cause for now and revisit in a year or two, armed with a more compelling case, Holmes said. In particular, Pollack told him that getting DMUs in part depends on proving a high-level of demand.][...]
http://baystatebanner.com/news/2016/feb/10/fairmount-line-setback-no-dmus-says-mbta/?page=1

Pardon the length, the resonance to UPX is profound! Which brings us back to our Nippon Sharyos, and what to do with them? I can't help but think segregating the southern two tracks of the Weston Corridor (extending north to Bramalea) and electrifying just those two for now, and tying them into the Eglinton and Finch LRT might be an answer? Paris, Berlin, NY, London, Moscow and many other cities have done this is in some form or another.
 
Last edited:
seriously, I get that topics and threads meander a bit and get off topic....but as someone with an interest in GO (and other transit agency) construction projects but virtually no interest in the type of trains/trainsets/engine technology used by GO (or any of the other {many} transit agencies discussed here) it is really disheartening that, either, GO is not actually constructing anything or news of any of these construction projection projects can only be found by mining through pages of lengthy posts about various types of trainsets/engines.
 
seriously, I get that topics and threads meander a bit and get off topic....but as someone with an interest in GO (and other transit agency) construction projects but virtually no interest in the type of trains/trainsets/engine technology used by GO (or any of the other {many} transit agencies discussed here) it is really disheartening that, either, GO is not actually constructing anything or news of any of these construction projection projects can only be found by mining through pages of lengthy posts about various types of trainsets/engines.
My apologies TO, I've checked through forum headings, and this forum seems the most apt for discussing how to construct the GO improvements. Is there a more apt heading that you are aware of?
 
My apologies TO, I've checked through forum headings, and this forum seems the most apt for discussing how to construct the GO improvements. Is there a more apt heading that you are aware of?
wasn't aimed at you exclusively.

I would suggest that if there is not a thread about something (anything) but there is going to be an incredibly long and detailed discussion about it then it would be time to start a new thread.

So, to use this example, a quick ( 2 or 3 post) diversion into train technology is one thing....but if (as has happened) we get very long, very detailed discussion about trains and technology (as opposed to the thread topic "construction projects" ) then a new thread is needed/warranted. (IMO.....keep in mind I am not a moderator).
 
it is really disheartening that, either, GO is not actually constructing anything

Nothing notable since the Georgetown project finished other than Union train shed which moves pretty slowly.

Small chunk of Barrie line bypass track, work on the Niagara corridor and yard, maintenance facilities, and minor parking/station improvements. The excitement level for me is akin to utility moves before the Spadina extension started; almost unnoticed.

I suppose there's also the zombie projects like Exhibition Station though the activity appears to be more on the TTC side than GO. Pretty good trench where streetcar track retaining wall used to be.

I would be interested in pictures of Gormley station. That should be nearly finished right?
 
Last edited:
Major GO projects I can think of right now:

Stouffville extra track
Barrie extra track
Gormley GO
Lewis Yard
Shirley Yard
Niagara track upgrades to the Lewis Yard
East Rail Maintenance Facility
South Blair grade separation
403 Transitway
Burlington GO renovations
James North GO station

There is a lot going on, but to compare it to Georgetown South is kind of silly. Georgetown South was GOs largest ever project.

Construction will begin to ramp up more soon though. The next big project will be the completion of the Stouffville double tracking and the new 3rd track to Pickering.
 
403 Transitway.

It's hard to know how to gauge this, at least some is over-reaction, but this is far from the only case where Metrolinx have shown incredible insensitivity:
http://www.mississauga.com/blogs/po...rolinx-matrix-one-frustrating-step-at-a-time/

Note this: [...][Hydro One nixed any construction below its wires, which meant Metrolinx had “to squeeze everything up against the residences."

Since Ontario owns the land it doesn’t need to seek site plan approval and didn’t, although it would have been good form.][...]
There's a real political set-up in there: If Ontario owns the land, then why does Hydro One lord over them? The Ontario Electricity Act and others allow "other uses" of Hydro land as long as it doesn't create a technical issue. Example: Rail RoWs, highways etc. If this is how Hydro One acts before privatization, what after?
 
Last edited:

Back
Top