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I believe the grade separations are over the entire lakeshore west corridor. Only the new track is between Burlington and West Harbour.

The two grade separations are Burl Oak and Kerr Street.
 
smallspy said:
Valley Inn Road was never not grade separated.

The two grade separations are at Burloak Dr. - for which an EA is currently underway - and at Kerr St., for which an EA has already been completed but funding had not yet been earmarked.

The "train layover facilities" are likely in relation to the new yard at Lewis Rd. as well as the upgrades to the layover at Hunter St.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

innsertnamehere said:
I believe the grade separations are over the entire lakeshore west corridor. Only the new track is between Burlington and West Harbour.

The two grade separations are Burl Oak and Kerr Street.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. I was interpreting "between Burlington Station and West Harbour Station" too strictly.
 
I wondered about the expansive descriptions also. To my knowledge, there is no plan to do any further track construction east of Bayview, although perhaps the interlockings will be moved around or the Aldershot stub track will be upgraded to a fully signalled two-ended siding. Nothing of the sort appears in the RER BCA document, which has pretty detailed track maps. Of course, the grade separations are further east, so the area cited would be accurate if that's what is referred to.

The triple track to Bayview was completed in, what - 2009? Made me wonder if Ontario's original application for funding (now a couple of years old) had some crafty retroactive accounting to bulk up the amounts. There's no honour among thieves or federal-provincial political interfaces, after all.

If there is new work planned, I'm all for it, wherever it is.

- Paul
 
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The Kitchener Centre MP commented on the federal investment for the Kitchener Line:

"Saini noted new track will be built to help separate freight and commuter train traffic, in order to speed up passenger travel. He said the work is needed along the whole line as Metrolinx moves toward electrification."

Full interview here. Interesting use of the word "separated". I'm just posting the interview. Not speculating or commenting on it at this point.
 
crs1026 said:
I wondered about the expansive descriptions also. To my knowledge, there is no plan to do any further track construction east of Bayview, although perhaps the interlockings will be moved around or the Aldershot stub track will be upgraded to a fully signalled two-ended siding. Nothing of the sort appears in the RER BCA document, which has pretty detailed track maps. Of course, the grade separations are further east, so the area cited would be accurate if that's what is referred to.

The triple track to Bayview was completed in, what - 2009? Made me wonder if Ontario's original application for funding (now a couple of years old) had some crafty retroactive accounting to bulk up the amounts. There's no honour among thieves or federal-provincial political interfaces, after all.

If there is new work planned, I'm all for it, wherever it is.

- Paul
Click to expand...

There are preliminary designs to add a fourth track from Bayview to Burlington West - those plans were in place as the construction of the third track progressed - and by the sounds of it, will be happening sooner rather than later.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
There are preliminary designs to add a fourth track from Bayview to Burlington West - those plans were in place as the construction of the third track progressed - and by the sounds of it, will be happening sooner rather than later.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

Do the plans include a rail-over-rail grade separation? in the Bayview Junction area? Or is this no longer contemplated?
 
smallspy said:
There are preliminary designs to add a fourth track from Bayview to Burlington West - those plans were in place as the construction of the third track progressed - and by the sounds of it, will be happening sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they studied that alternative (along with many others). I checked the BCA document and it does propose a 4th track eastwards from Aldershot to east of the platform at Burlington. But then, the build at Bayview-Stewart already exceeds what was documented in the EA and the RER BCA. And the BCA makes no mention of a 4th track Port Credit-Canpa, which there have been lots of rumblings about also.

More track is not a bad thing, but I wish ML would clarify when its plans drift away from the documents they put out before. Call me naive but I still think we ought to be able to rely on what they tell us.

- Paul
 
Allandale25 said:
Do the plans include a rail-over-rail grade separation? in the Bayview Junction area? Or is this no longer contemplated?
Click to expand...

I'm sure that there are still plans for it if absolutely necessary, but they seemed to have backed off pushing for it for the foreseeable future.

crs1026 said:
I'm sure they studied that alternative (along with many others). I checked the BCA document and it does propose a 4th track eastwards from Aldershot to east of the platform at Burlington. But then, the build at Bayview-Stewart already exceeds what was documented in the EA and the RER BCA. And the BCA makes no mention of a 4th track Port Credit-Canpa, which there have been lots of rumblings about also.

More track is not a bad thing, but I wish ML would clarify when its plans drift away from the documents they put out before. Call me naive but I still think we ought to be able to rely on what they tell us.

- Paul
Click to expand...

Well yes, those are Metrolinx's plans. There is also CN's plans, for which the current push seems to be based on.

Of course, the catch is that the BCA is just that, a BCA. It may serve as a guideline for the EA, but it can't be seen as a replacement for it. The EA and preliminary engineering is the point at which they really dig into the studies and see what the track and signal layout that makes sense.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
This is almost beyond capacity (with an optimized signal system) to electrify 15-minutes to Bayview. Except for a grade separation (or two). They can always do the grade separation later.

More capacity from Burlington to West Harbour would also help Hamilton all-day service to either station -- or even both.

Within 25 years (or so), we likely need to electrify to the U.S. border anyway. At least all-day electrification to St. Catharines as it booms. Hamilton's population is projected to grow 40% to 780,000 by 2041.

The 15-min Burlington/Aldershot could someday (by 2041-ish) split to 30-min Hamilton Downtown / 30-min StCat (before Welland canal grade separation) once the population warrants, to avoid freeway expansion.

Big expensive problem is grade separating electrification from freight, and possible eventual Hamilton CN waterfront railyard relocation to one of the Hamilton industrial piers.

They seem up to something we don't know yet. Electrification is probably being protected-for of the master plan. The Bay bridge rebuild in Hamilton, raised it to almost exactly BiLevel electrification clearance requirements.
 
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smallspy said:
Of course, the catch is that the BCA is just that, a BCA. It may serve as a guideline for the EA, but it can't be seen as a replacement for it. The EA and preliminary engineering is the point at which they really dig into the studies and see what the track and signal layout that makes sense.
Click to expand...

What's disfunctional (aside from complicating the lives of us whiny information-hungry spectators) is that the BCA used the track design in its economic analysis. I can appreciate that the BCA is not a technical/engineering design point, but it does seem to be the point at which ML evaluates the capital needs versus the product and says "yeah, we can do it for this much investment and it's worth it because we get x for that money".

Then along comes reality, and that preliminary cost guesstimate (which has sort of become a promise) starts inching upwards.

Politics being what it is, at this point estimates and hard design details start to get buried and obfuscated instead of everyone being transparent and saying "OK, turns out the cost will be higher and we need to build more track".

If I were Transport Minister for the day, I would just declare that Bayview to Union will be four tracks (minimum) and it will take as long as it takes.

mdrejhon said:
Big expensive problem is grade separating electrification from freight, and possible eventual Hamilton CN waterfront railyard relocation to one of the Hamilton industrial piers.
They seem up to something we don't know yet. Electrification is probably being protected-for of the master plan. The Bay bridge rebuild in Hamilton, raised it to almost exactly BiLevel electrification clearance requirements.
Click to expand...

The problem in this stretch is that you can't weave RER from the south side (at Aldershot) to the "north" side at Stuart/West Harbour without intersecting with the freight routing. Either CN gives up any prospect of running double stack to Niagara, or GO gives up electrification to Hamilton. Rock, meet hard place. So, again, I would insert a placeholder for the flyover in the BCA, and if things turn out better, it's a bonus.

- Paul
 
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