innsertnamehere
Superstar
crazy how it is built for 5 tracks through here - what the heck makes them think they will need that many?
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
High speed rail? Or something more reasonable, 1 station, 2 passenger, 2 freight.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
It is a lot, but I'm glad it is future-proofed.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I could see it being 2 passenger and 3 freight.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
There also seems to also be room for 6 lanes of car traffic by removing four geneorus half-lane-width road curbs -- or space for an LRT connection someday.
I think it is going to be 2 freight and 3 GO tracks at the moment.
There is ROW all the way from West Harbour to St. Catharines to fit 4 tracks, if all bridges are rebuilt and all grades separated. The corridor is straightarrow and flat enough for HSR if that ever happens -- if the Empire Corridor is electrified by US, there will be incentive to complete electrification to the border and switch to Acela style service.
In fortituous circumstances, I captured the Amtrak by accident:
View attachment 142236
Imagine this being an electric "Acela Express" in 2051. (And making a stop in Hamilton, too.)
And GO running higher-speed 200kph limited-stop express commuter trains to Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton, StCat, too (just like france fastest RER routes -- they run up to 200kph!)
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Transportfan
Senior Member
Though sometimes future-proofing is taken to such a degree now that more money is wasted doing it than can realistically be expected to ever be needed in many cases.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
The problem with these bridges is that they often have century long life spans - and who knows if we will need 5 tracks in 2118?
crs1026
Superstar
Notice that the new spans aren’t there yet. It’s definitely cheaper to pour a five span footing than to pour two and come back later to add three (digging up and moving lots of things in the process) Pretty strategic thinking around one shot versus incremental construction. Good insurance if you ask me.
- Paul
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
I wonder what R.C. Harris would say......building a massive bridge across the Don Valley to a then dirt road (Danforth) in the early 20th Century and including a deck underneath for rapid transit, when Toronto wouldn't see a single subway for another 4 decades, wouldn't see one way up there for another 5 plus?
Its true, there is a risk of over-building, but this particular investment is not nearly so visionary as some earlier projects, it just makes the underpass a bit deeper for a bit longer, and pours a bit more concrete, for the modest increase in cost, the pay off is not need to re-do everything if an extra track or two become needed/desirable.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Like the post I recently made in the 25-Year Masterplanning Thread
Mark Rejhon said:
For Centennial Parkway bridge, if you had to choose a random bridge anywhere in the Grimsby sub to futureproof (between Hamilton and StCat) -- any single bridge -- to replace or to fully grade separate -- then the Centennial Parkway bridge turns out to be one of the prime candidates to get the biggest grade-separation project.
Centennial Parkway is a major artery that have connections to several freeways that spread north, south, east, and west. If you wanted to slightly overspend a little to futureproof, this is it.
They had to temporarily de-grade-separate and massively widen the underpass -- that was the big cost no matter how small or big the rail bridge was going to be. Given the major route connections, it was a much more massive inconvenience here than at BurlOak (even though gate closings are more frequent there)! When the gate closed, it was a huge pain for many during bridge construction, so a huge incentive to futureproof, you really don't want to interrupt traffic at this spot.
This bridge was also partially federally funded under the Action Plan (Harper era), in addition to the Metrolinx/Ontario pitch-in.
I'm not sure how long before all 5 tracks are needed but it's... CN. The overkill allows full bidirectional freight separation from bidirectional GO track, so the bridge is fully freight-interference-proof. The station diagrams show that the platform overhangs the bridge, so that's why there's a big space between 2-tracks and 3-track groups -- it's an allocation for a bridge-overhanging GO platform.
A couple of morning trains already deadhead between Lewis Yard (Grimsby) and their beginning of Lakeshore West service (I think at West Harbour GO), so the 5th track provides bypass/deadhead capability in one direction without interfering with bidirectional GO service nor bidirectional freight service. Sure, good signalling would make it unnecessary to need all 5, but at least it's "CN-whims" proofed.
The bridge "seems" to be more substantially beefy & in some respects more well built than the 1929 bridge it replaced. So I wouldn't be surprised if this bridge lasts 150+ years with good maintenance and a some midlife refurbishments -- given they don't salt rail corridors it will last much longer than a typical Canadian road bridge that's continually salted.
There's a little spirit of 1929 bridge in the new one, they copied the style into the concrete:
The space under the 2015 bridge is intentionally wide enough to allow 4 car lane + 2 LRT lanes as part of the Hamilton BLAST plan. For now, there's 4 deep curbs on both edges of both sides keeping it at 4 car lanes.
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crs1026
Superstar
CP ran a work block this weekend to advance the installation of the short stretch of double track on the Milton line east of West Toronto.
There are new signals in place and the old signals were being removed. The two tracks converge right under the Wallace Ave footbridge, with a new power switch at that location. It looks like there may be one more set of signals to be installed before this work is final, but that may wait for a while. The track certainly looks surfaced and ready to go.
In the close up shot of the two workers, that red around the rail isn't spray paint - it's molten slag, cooling after thermite welding the jointed rail into ribbon rail. The work crew was doing welds and then chipping and grinding off the excess slag. I didn't get my camera out fast enough to record the weld until it began to cool...the whole thing is bright red after the weld. Very cool to watch that task.
- Paul
There are new signals in place and the old signals were being removed. The two tracks converge right under the Wallace Ave footbridge, with a new power switch at that location. It looks like there may be one more set of signals to be installed before this work is final, but that may wait for a while. The track certainly looks surfaced and ready to go.
In the close up shot of the two workers, that red around the rail isn't spray paint - it's molten slag, cooling after thermite welding the jointed rail into ribbon rail. The work crew was doing welds and then chipping and grinding off the excess slag. I didn't get my camera out fast enough to record the weld until it began to cool...the whole thing is bright red after the weld. Very cool to watch that task.
- Paul
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robmausser
Senior Member
Ah, will be nice to have that double track for GO-RER service along the CP corridor when CP is relocated with the Missing Link Part 2.
Thanks CP!
mdrejhon
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
^And both station tracks are in use.
A bit of trivia: those station tracks are “bonded” - ie wired up similar to main line tracks.... a little added investment suggesting they might be that some day soon.
- Paul
A bit of trivia: those station tracks are “bonded” - ie wired up similar to main line tracks.... a little added investment suggesting they might be that some day soon.
- Paul
robmausser
Senior Member
Any updates on Stouffville double tracking?
The work is delaying weekend service! (As they want to use the weekend to work uninterrupted)
Im curious to know when it will be done.
The work is delaying weekend service! (As they want to use the weekend to work uninterrupted)
Im curious to know when it will be done.