[MrGoose]

How? Unless we repossess everyone's property, flatten the suburbs and coerce everyone to move into high density housing and then build transit hubs up to each housing unit.... this ship has sailed. Look below, if you live on one of these cul de sacs and you work downtown Toronto, there's no way local transit (especially if we exclude buses) can get you to the Go Train station. And I exclude buses because I hate them, noisy, rattling, crowded, smelly things used only by the desperate, becrippled, schoolaged and poor. Even if we included buses, there's no way they could serve suburban daily GoTrain commuters in neighborhoods like those below.

Here's Ajax...

Here's Milton...

Autonomous shuttles to/from the station can help. Creating bike lanes to the station (and making sure to clear them in winter) will also help with getting people in suburbia to use GO.

 

[Coolstar]

How? Unless we repossess everyone's property, flatten the suburbs and coerce everyone to move into high density housing and then build transit hubs up to each housing unit.... this ship has sailed. Look below, if you live on one of these cul de sacs and you work downtown Toronto, there's no way local transit (especially if we exclude buses) can get you to the Go Train station. And I exclude buses because I hate them, noisy, rattling, crowded, smelly things used only by the desperate, becrippled, schoolaged and poor. Even if we included buses, there's no way they could serve suburban daily GoTrain commuters in neighborhoods like those below.

Here's Ajax...

Here's Milton...

Brampton Transit seems to do just fine. We can and should make the buses more frequent out in the suburbs among other improvements like TSP or bus lanes. The TRBOT recently released a report on how to do this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463922013341458439

 

[W. K. Lis]

Cul-de-sacs create traffic. The mazes increases the distance pedestrians (and cyclists) have to traverse to reach a destination.

The bad news is that to fix the problem would mean spending money by the cities. Starting with creating bicycle highways through the cul-de-sacs. Cue the NIMBYs

 

[robmausser]

Cul-de-sacs create traffic. The mazes increases the distance pedestrians (and cyclists) have to traverse to reach a destination.

The bad news is that to fix the problem would mean spending money by the cities. Starting with creating bicycle highways through the cul-de-sacs. Cue the NIMBYs

A lot of cul-de-sacs are actually already built this way in the GTA, it was actually in a USA zoning study as an example on how to better build suburbs.

Brampton suburbs for example (both the long trails and you can see the small green 'connectors' between suburbs)

Ajax is pretty good too, especially down in the southern suburb near the lake.

Obviously more is needed, but have them along with separated bike paths on the main roads, allow ebikes and escooters on them, and plow them in the winter and you could definitely have a sizeable portion of people taking them to the GO stations.

 

[W. K. Lis]

A lot of cul-de-sacs are actually already built this way in the GTA, it was actually in a USA zoning study as an example on how to better build suburbs.

View attachment 366658
Brampton suburbs for example (both the long trails and you can see the small green 'connectors' between suburbs)

View attachment 366659
Ajax is pretty good too, especially down in the southern suburb near the lake.

Obviously more is needed, but have them along with separated bike paths on the main roads, allow ebikes and escooters on them, and plow them in the winter and you could definitely have a sizeable portion of people taking them to the GO stations.

"Plow them in the winter"? (Insert laugh track here.) Plowing the sidewalks (if any) for second class pedestrians? The snobs in the suburbs would even object having to do that for cyclists.

Why Sweden Clears Snow-Covered Walkways Before Roads​

See link.

 

[Deadpool X]

No.

So, you should not be expecting mid day GO service to be the same as peak hour service.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So, you should not be expecting mid day GO service to be the same as peak hour service.

Agreed.

 

[EnviroTO]

There was decent transit in Toronto low rise neighborhoods long before highrises started popping up everywhere. They key was, and continues to be, relatively frequent surface transit routes that start at the network backbone which operates high frequency. If the GO network can get to a high frequency and surface routes can be better designed to both create a useful grid network and get to the network backbone then transit should become a more palatable option.

 

[daniel_kryz]

We might not be getting any new trains as part of GO Expansion. They might have decided to just refurbish the old ones...
Or am I wrong?
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/...vestments-in-go-transit-bi-level-rail-coaches

Building Ontario with Investments in GO Transit Bi-level Rail Coaches​

Made-in-Ontario railcars support manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Thunder Bay
November 30, 2021

---

THUNDER BAY – The Ontario government is providing $171 million to refurbish 94 GO Transit bi-level rail coaches at the Alstom plant in Thunder Bay. This investment will support ongoing service expansion across the GO rail network, while supporting 200 manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Northwestern Ontario.
“As part of our plan to build Ontario, we have reached a deal that is good for transit and good for Thunder Bay workers,” said Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation. “It simply makes sense to refurbish these made-in-Ontario railcars in the same facility that built them. This is part of our plan to advance Ontario’s transit priorities while supporting good-paying jobs in the province.”
The refurbished bi-level coaches are expected to be delivered starting in 2023 and will be equipped with new seating, washroom upgrades, updated electrical outlets with USB ports and other cosmetic improvements.
By extending the life of these coaches, Metrolinx will have the rail fleet required to support GO Transit expansion, which will provide faster and more convenient service across the GO rail network.
“Our government understands that we need to do everything possible to support economic development, and today’s announcement will help support that by securing high quality, good-paying jobs in the North,” said Greg Rickford, Minister of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry. “Ontario is a world-leading manufacturing powerhouse, and targeted investments like these will continue to create the conditions for economic growth and job creation in Northern Ontario, making it the best place to work, live, and prosper.”
As part of Ontario’s commitment to support public transit and manufacturing in Northern Ontario, Metrolinx is working closely with the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission (ONTC) on opportunities for the refurbishment of additional bi-level coaches and locomotives.

 

[Nomad_87]

We might not be getting any new trains as part of GO Expansion. They might have decided to just refurbish the old ones...
Or am I wrong?
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/...vestments-in-go-transit-bi-level-rail-coaches

Building Ontario with Investments in GO Transit Bi-level Rail Coaches​

Made-in-Ontario railcars support manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Thunder Bay
November 30, 2021

---

THUNDER BAY – The Ontario government is providing $171 million to refurbish 94 GO Transit bi-level rail coaches at the Alstom plant in Thunder Bay. This investment will support ongoing service expansion across the GO rail network, while supporting 200 manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Northwestern Ontario.
“As part of our plan to build Ontario, we have reached a deal that is good for transit and good for Thunder Bay workers,” said Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation. “It simply makes sense to refurbish these made-in-Ontario railcars in the same facility that built them. This is part of our plan to advance Ontario’s transit priorities while supporting good-paying jobs in the province.”
The refurbished bi-level coaches are expected to be delivered starting in 2023 and will be equipped with new seating, washroom upgrades, updated electrical outlets with USB ports and other cosmetic improvements.
By extending the life of these coaches, Metrolinx will have the rail fleet required to support GO Transit expansion, which will provide faster and more convenient service across the GO rail network.
“Our government understands that we need to do everything possible to support economic development, and today’s announcement will help support that by securing high quality, good-paying jobs in the North,” said Greg Rickford, Minister of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry. “Ontario is a world-leading manufacturing powerhouse, and targeted investments like these will continue to create the conditions for economic growth and job creation in Northern Ontario, making it the best place to work, live, and prosper.”
As part of Ontario’s commitment to support public transit and manufacturing in Northern Ontario, Metrolinx is working closely with the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission (ONTC) on opportunities for the refurbishment of additional bi-level coaches and locomotives.

Yeah.... I don't see how refurbishing the old cars means we won't be getting any new ones. They've been gradually refurbishing the bilevels for a long time. This is likely just to get the last of them out of the way. And besides, as long as CP doesn't allow GO to have their own tracks along the Galt subdivision they'll have a home on the Milton Line

 

[daniel_kryz]

Yeah.... I don't see how refurbishing the old cars means we won't be getting any new ones. They've been gradually refurbishing the bilevels for a long time. This is likely just to get the last of them out of the way. And besides, as long as CP doesn't allow GO to have their own tracks along the Galt subdivision they'll have a home on the Milton Line

That's a relief. In terms of CN and CP, we should have federal legislation that removes their ability to oppose electrification and passenger rail... although it's a tricky situation because freight rail moves about 70% of Canada's products.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's a relief. In terms of CN and CP, we should have federal legislation that removes their ability to oppose electrification and passenger rail... although it's a tricky situation because freight rail moves about 70% of Canada's products.

The plan is to buy new trains for some services, particularly off peak services, and keep the current trains for peak hour trips, particularly to the outer parts of the network outside of electrification. Existing cars will be used for peak hour express trips, trips out to Bowmanvillle, Kitchener, Niagara, etc, with the new fleet running the 15 minute local service.

 

[robmausser]

We might not be getting any new trains as part of GO Expansion. They might have decided to just refurbish the old ones...
Or am I wrong?
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/...vestments-in-go-transit-bi-level-rail-coaches

Building Ontario with Investments in GO Transit Bi-level Rail Coaches​

Made-in-Ontario railcars support manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Thunder Bay
November 30, 2021

---

THUNDER BAY – The Ontario government is providing $171 million to refurbish 94 GO Transit bi-level rail coaches at the Alstom plant in Thunder Bay. This investment will support ongoing service expansion across the GO rail network, while supporting 200 manufacturing jobs and economic growth in Northwestern Ontario.
“As part of our plan to build Ontario, we have reached a deal that is good for transit and good for Thunder Bay workers,” said Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation. “It simply makes sense to refurbish these made-in-Ontario railcars in the same facility that built them. This is part of our plan to advance Ontario’s transit priorities while supporting good-paying jobs in the province.”
The refurbished bi-level coaches are expected to be delivered starting in 2023 and will be equipped with new seating, washroom upgrades, updated electrical outlets with USB ports and other cosmetic improvements.
By extending the life of these coaches, Metrolinx will have the rail fleet required to support GO Transit expansion, which will provide faster and more convenient service across the GO rail network.
“Our government understands that we need to do everything possible to support economic development, and today’s announcement will help support that by securing high quality, good-paying jobs in the North,” said Greg Rickford, Minister of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry. “Ontario is a world-leading manufacturing powerhouse, and targeted investments like these will continue to create the conditions for economic growth and job creation in Northern Ontario, making it the best place to work, live, and prosper.”
As part of Ontario’s commitment to support public transit and manufacturing in Northern Ontario, Metrolinx is working closely with the Ontario Northland Transportation Commission (ONTC) on opportunities for the refurbishment of additional bi-level coaches and locomotives.

Bi Levels will continue on Milton and RH, and to the fringes of the network. Even if those fringes have electrification they will be pulled by an electric loco. If not a dual mode loco.

Only the extremely frequent 905 service will see EMUs. So thats still a lot of service to run with the existing fleet.

 

[cplchanb]

Bi Levels will continue on Milton and RH, and to the fringes of the network. Even if those fringes have electrification they will be pulled by an electric loco. If not a dual mode loco.

Only the extremely frequent 905 service will see EMUs. So thats still a lot of service to run with the existing fleet.

I can understand with the early 2000s coaches as they probably have a decade of life left. However Id begin to worry if they start refurbing all the older ones from the 80s and 90s (series 6 and back).

 

[Krypto98]

Couldn't Motive Power just come up with a MP60 electric powered locomotive?