crs1026
Superstar
ML also has plans for a station in there somewhere.
- Paul
- Paul
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
All the properties touch the railway line. The dots further south appear to be part of the same lots that touch the tracks - presumably some legal reason to list the historic 1800s lot numbers that are part of the same legal property.
Looking at the terrain, it can't be because they want to use it for something.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Coolstar
Senior Member
Notably (which I missed when I initially read the blog), it makes no mention of EMUs, only electric locomotives.
robmausser
Senior Member
There are some pretty damn powerful electric locos out there that with a 6 car bilevel consist could provide nearly the same acceleration profile as an EMU. I wouldnt be surprised if thats the route GO takes at first. Then, as the bilevels reach their EOL, swap them out for EMU's. The purchased electric locos would then replace diesel fleet to the outer fringes of the network like Barrie, as the electrification will be expanded. Its not like they will electrify the entire network all at once.
Actually that raises a question, what section does everyone think they will electrify first? My money is on Union to Bramalea.
Allandale25
Senior Member
What do you mean by first? For On Corr contact, are you suggesting there would be staged/phased opening dates for the various lines?
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Power usually isn't the limitation with electric locomotives, it's traction. Pretty much any electric locomotive nowadays will have enough power to spin the wheels while accelerating at low speeds. It's moreso at higher speeds when the full power can actually be opened up. But the first in line for electrification are GO's local services, which will rarely benefit from that high-speed performance. Electric locomotives will definitely be an improvement relative to diesel locos, but I don't think they would come close to EMU's in the local service use case. I hope they can start ordering EMUs as soon as possible, to shift those electric locomotives onto the express services where they much better suited.
From what I've measured here in the Netherlands, the locomotive-hauled trains (consisting of 2 Bombardier Traxx locos + 7 to 9 single-level coaches) accelerate noticeably less quickly from a standstill than the rest of the NS fleet (all EMUs), despite being the most powerful trainsets (15 000 hp). It's only above about 80 km/h that they actually outperform the other rolling stock.
I think it would indeed make sense for the OnCorr consortium to stage the rollout of electrification. Initially focusing resources on a smaller area means that the first electrified segment can start service earlier. The sooner the first segment comes online, the sooner they can stop buying diesel trains and start buying electric trains.
I think the selection of an initial operating segment would have the following criteria:
- It needs to contain an electric train maintenance facility
- It should be as short as practical while still supporting a reasonable service pattern (preferably avoiding turnbacks at Union).
- It needs to include an initial test segment, ideally adjacent to the yard. This would be completed as much as a year earlier than the rest, to enable rolling stock and electrical systems to be tested in practice.
We currently only have one electric-ready maintenance facility, which is Whitby. So the most obvious initial segment would be from Oshawa to Oakville or Burlington, with Pickering-Oshawa serving as the initial test segment.
If they can build the proposed Etobicoke North maintenance facility really quickly, it might be possible to have an initial segment from Pearson to Union, subsequently expanding to Bramalea-Unionville once a second maintenance facility joins the electric network.
I suspect that retrofitting Willowbrook for electric trains will be a fairly lengthy process, so I don't think it would serve as the home base for the first electric trains.
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Allandale25
Senior Member
^ thanks.
Do you think if they did Burlington to Oshawa as the first line to electrify they would do all of the Union Station Rail Corridor as well just to get it out of the way? I realize it's all speculation since metrolinks and the proponent are now in a 2-year design phase.
Do you think if they did Burlington to Oshawa as the first line to electrify they would do all of the Union Station Rail Corridor as well just to get it out of the way? I realize it's all speculation since metrolinks and the proponent are now in a 2-year design phase.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Would it be possible to redesign the original Bi-level cars into EMU's? Is there space to put traction motors where the wheels are now?
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Another advantage of the Lakeshore Corridor is that the new south platforms at Union will be built for electrification from day one. So it is possible that Union could initially have only the southern half of the station electrified. But given that you'd probably still need catenary gantries spanning all of the approach tracks, I'm not sure how much time that would save on the rollout of an initial electrified segment.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's economically viable. Does it make sense to spend money developing a Bombardier BiLevel EMU, while there are off-the-shelf EMU's available and there's a decent second-hand market for BiLevel coaches?
Modern-day EMUs are incredibly finnicky due to their complex control and signalling systems, so it's not as simple as slapping on some electric motors and a pantograph. That might have been possible in the 60's but not anymore. Today you're better off with an existing model which has been extensively developed and tested to identify and resolve the bugs in the control systems.
robmausser
Senior Member
The issue with doing Lakeshore East first is that it will negatively affect the Lakeshore line as it runs through East/West. Splitting those lines up will mess up a lot of how they currently work. Theres a possibility of doing the entirety of Burlington to Oshawa first, but I wouldn't call that a "small segment"
Hopefully they can expedite the Etobicoke facility, because another reason to do Union-Bramalea first is that the most GO-RER/Smarttrack stations are on that routing, and electrification is a big requirement for that.
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crs1026
Superstar
Don’t forget about
- Ease and complexity of connecting the power supply - network considerations with Hydro One and substation numbers and location may dictate where power can be provided soonest
- The readiness of signalling systems and the amount of work remaining to isolate/bond/ground along the line
- Amount of civil work needed (bridges, clearances, etc)
- Readiness to erect OCS - LSE strikes me as least likely because Ontario Line and new track construction makes it hard to string wires there
(we ought to be in a different thread)
- Paul
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It would also allow them to electrify UP Express. I stand to be corrected, but wasn't one of the "deals" reached with the communities along the line (Weston in particular) was that UP would be electrified as soon as it was feasible?
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yes in fact the main reason the Etobicoke maintenance facility was proposed was to enable the UP Express to be electrified as soon as possible, without needing to wait for the electrification of Willowbrook or a connection all the way to Whitby.
However in the meantime I haven't heard much action on the yard, though it is still shown in the GO Expansion track plans. It's possible that Metrolinx is hesitant to invest in a maintenance facility which would only be able to handle 3-car EMUs.