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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
EnviroTO
Senior Member
They are really grasping to define the benefit. "One step closer to helping improve customer experience at the station." They knocked down a neighbourhood and paved it over, and the experience is one of walking in the elements, and crossing a street at the far northeast corner of the lot.
crs1026
Superstar
^Pretty silly corporatespeak prose also.
”One step closer to helping improve…..” not “This significantly improves….”
Pretty close to Leafs management explaining how much farther the team came this year.
My high school English teacher is eyerolling.
- Paul
”One step closer to helping improve…..” not “This significantly improves….”
Pretty close to Leafs management explaining how much farther the team came this year.
My high school English teacher is eyerolling.
- Paul
robmausser
Senior Member
I lost all faith in Metrolinx being able to properly market themselves after the whole "15 minutes or better" language for GO RER. 15 minutes or better....advertising the worst metric.
This car does 10 km/h or better....
Usain Bolt runs the 100m dash in 1 minute or better....
Undead
Senior Member
"Up to 5 minute frequencies."
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Assuming you mean 5 minute headways, you can meet this promise by running service every 5 minutes during the peak hour and not running any trains for the rest of the day. So basically the same type of commuter service that they historically provided.
The whole point of "15 minutes or better" is to emphasize that they will be running frequent train service all day in both directions, not just a peak commuter service.
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Undead
Senior Member
I'm just being facetious. It's all marketing shlock.
Though the average person will find it more intuitive seeing frequencies expressed in minutes, not TPH (small distinction for the people here, I know).
For what it's worth, the TTC always includes both minutes and TPH in their planning docs so it's not some set in stone commandment.
Though the average person will find it more intuitive seeing frequencies expressed in minutes, not TPH (small distinction for the people here, I know).
For what it's worth, the TTC always includes both minutes and TPH in their planning docs so it's not some set in stone commandment.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Headway is measured in units of time. For example 10 minutes.
Frequency is measured in number of instances per unit of time. For example 6 trains per hour, or 1 train per 10 minutes.
TTC Planning includes both headway and frequency.
robmausser
Senior Member
The issue is for marketing, "15 minutes or better" is terrible. For transit enthusiasts, transit planners, what we hear is "15 minutes or better" . For the average person what they hear is "trains only every 15 minutes."
crs1026
Superstar
I'm afraid I'm a bit too literal and a bit too much of an analyst at heart, but I find the ratio of marketing schlock to actual progress on ML projects appalling. Do they think the "average" Ontarian doesn't see through this stuff?
If this accomplishment is a single step to "helping", how many steps are there in the full "helping" subtask? And how many discrete "helpings" are there in the full customer experience improvement program?
I don't think it's unreasonable for a public agency to declare its end completion date for a project and provide meaningful milestones towards this. Transparent and accountable.
- Paul
If this accomplishment is a single step to "helping", how many steps are there in the full "helping" subtask? And how many discrete "helpings" are there in the full customer experience improvement program?
I don't think it's unreasonable for a public agency to declare its end completion date for a project and provide meaningful milestones towards this. Transparent and accountable.
- Paul
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Last time I showed someone a Lakeshore West timetable it blew their mind. They had no idea that there were 64 trains per day, they thought it was around 5 per day. If we can get the average person to think there are trains every 15 minutes, that's a massive improvement.
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ARG1
Senior Member
You mean the average person especially in the 905 that has an expectation of busses that come every 30 minutes? What average person other than those that live right next to a subway looks at 15 minute headways and says "ONLY 15 minutes"? Reminder, the status quo for most GO lines is hourly (except Lakeshore Lines), and even then most people still view GO as a rush hour only experience - unaware that all day GO has been available on most lines for a while. For the general public, the bar of expectations for GO isn't really that high.
nfitz
Superstar
That's kind of misleading when that's the peak rush-hour exception more than the rule. 15-minutes or better tells us we can rely on it, even on Sunday evenings.
Undead
Senior Member
Welcome to marketing.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
The way they market is totally right. It's better to set the expectations right. On some sections, trains can run within 5 min gaps but you can't market that. That's not gonna happen all day or in all sections. By saying 5 min, you are suggesting people you have subway like frequencies and you don't need to check train's timetable when you leave from home. That's not going to end well with people.
15 minutes or better clearly means there is at most 15 min wait, or that the trains are at least every 15 min. No one reads "better" as "only". Even if they do, that's not bad because most assume 1 hour frequency and no service on weekends and mid-day. Only 15 min is a gamechanger for them.