[crs1026]

Jan 14
Took a look at Etobicoke North Station and area. I have no idea if that industrial track is still used as I saw no cars for the 2 tracks where it ends.

It is used, just not every day. I'm not sure if that warehouse has long term occupancy - but the plan has always been to retain that service track after the fourth track is squeezed in between.

The fourth track was planned (I have seen some official drawings) to be an extension of the runaround track that already exists west of the station. The service track, which is currently connected as the northmost track at the Wice interlocking, would be shifted and extended on the north side all the way to Halwest, and the fourth track would be tied in using the current signal from the service track and the fourth track (northmost track through Wice, which is currently tied to the service track) would be used through the interlocking. West of Wice, the existing service track would become the third main track through Malton and would end at a new turnout onto the existing T2 at Halwest

The problem being....to put this track segment in place, the Etobicoke North platform has to go.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

The freight siding gets regular use. Freight trains are there all the time in the afternoons.

The current Etobicoke North station has godawful bus access. If you are transferring from a northbound bus to a 6-car train in the station, you have to walk over 500m! That includes crossing the street twice and walking up a flight of stairs.

Why would the Islington bus deviate to serve an Islington station? The station platform could be right next to or even under the street like Danforth GO.

The old Lowe's land is planned to be redeveloped into a data centre, but there could still be enough room for station facilities north of the rail corridor but south of Lowe's place.

You got the same conditions for Islington as Etobicoke for riders gaining access to the station. You need stairs and elevators for both stations as well riders crossing the road. You can put in an elevator on the eastside of Kipling to the platform cutting walking distance for northbound riders and only crossing one road,

You only have one bus route servicing Islington compared to 3 for Etobicoke that will have a longer walk than Islington. miWay will bring next to no one for the Etobicoke as the Malton one is closer.

You will never get the platform up to Islington as Danforth as you have that service road there that is not going to disappear. The extra space in the corridor will disappear when track 1 gets built to use the 409/401 tunnels,

You would need a parking garage for Islington station on day one and how much is that going to eat land-wise for development as you noted???

As for the industry track, where does it fit eventually as the area gets redeveloped like it is today? You could still use that track for both parties but would require a regrading where it turns north as well part of the slop so the track can line up with the plan track tunnel.

 

[T3G]

You would need a parking garage for Islington station on day one and how much is that going to eat land-wise for development as you noted???

Uh, why?

Union, Danforth, Bloor, Downsview Park, are all stations that don't have parking lots.

 

[crs1026]

Uh, why?

Union, Danforth, Bloor, Downsview Park, are all stations that don't have parking lots.

I rather like the idea of a GO station that takes a different model.

All one would need at Islington are pull in bus bays on either side of the road, and an elevated lobby of sorts with elevators and stairs from street level to platform.... walk in off the sidewalk and down. No elaborate kiss and ride, no auto waiting area.....not much more elaborate than the elevated portion of Pickering GO. think of it as West Harbour Light.

If an auto area is desired maybe it has to be off Resources Road and not the most convenient amenity in the station (whereas bus access could be as easy as the original streetcar to subway platforms at Bloor/Yonge pre-19566).

I'm not saying that it would all fit easily at Islington, and I'm not saying that Islington has to have a station - although the location has its merits - but I would say it's worth considering.

- Paul

 

[Islington Express Bus]

You got the same conditions for Islington as Etobicoke for riders gaining access to the station. You need stairs and elevators for both stations as well riders crossing the road. You can put in an elevator on the eastside of Kipling to the platform cutting walking distance for northbound riders and only crossing one road,

You only have one bus route servicing Islington compared to 3 for Etobicoke that will have a longer walk than Islington. miWay will bring next to no one for the Etobicoke as the Malton one is closer.

You will never get the platform up to Islington as Danforth as you have that service road there that is not going to disappear. The extra space in the corridor will disappear when track 1 gets built to use the 409/401 tunnels,

You would need a parking garage for Islington station on day one and how much is that going to eat land-wise for development as you noted???

As for the industry track, where does it fit eventually as the area gets redeveloped like it is today? You could still use that track for both parties but would require a regrading where it turns north as well part of the slop so the track can line up with the plan track tunnel.

At Etobicoke North, the roadway is depressed from the sidewalk, making a bus stop there impossible. Meanwhile at Islington, you could put a stop on the bridge and have walkways down to the platform level. You could even relocate that service road.

Also I don't think you need a parking garage.

Check it out:

Grey: Paved surface
Black: Station building
Yellow: Platform
Red: Bus stop
White: Pedestrian path

 

[Krypto98]

I have no idea if that industrial track is still used as I saw no cars for the 2 tracks where it ends. It is possibly there were cars inside of the building that one tracks goes into.

They service that customer every other day. The cars go in the building usually but there is space for a few outside. I haven't worked that job in a while but that's how it was when I did work it.

 

[crs1026]

My plan is a whole lot simpler - platforms outside tracks 1 and 4, or one platform between 3 and 4, depending on how ML plans on using the trackage. Big Honking staircase under canopy from Islington sidewalk to the platform. Mobility access by an elevator shaft. Bus pull in on each side of Islington - not a loop, just the Islington Bus stopping there and moving on (plus whatever other routes are planned down that street).

The Lowes site was once studied by ML as their EMU maintenance and layover yard. Have they discarded that idea? I suspect that was back when they expected to electrify UPE but not necessarily the whole system.

- Paul

 

[Metroscapes]

At Etobicoke North, the roadway is depressed from the sidewalk, making a bus stop there impossible. Meanwhile at Islington, you could put a stop on the bridge and have walkways down to the platform level. You could even relocate that service road.

Also I don't think you need a parking garage.

Check it out:

View attachment 533591
Grey: Paved surface
Black: Station building
Yellow: Platform
Red: Bus stop
White: Pedestrian path

Except that area was earmarked to be a full service UPX layover facility. Did they officially kill that plan?

 

[reaperexpress]

I rather like the idea of a GO station that takes a different model.

All one would need at Islington are pull in bus bays on either side of the road, and an elevated lobby of sorts with elevators and stairs from street level to platform.... walk in off the sidewalk and down. No elaborate kiss and ride, no auto waiting area.....not much more elaborate than the elevated portion of Pickering GO. think of it as West Harbour Light.

If an auto area is desired maybe it has to be off Resources Road and not the most convenient amenity in the station (whereas bus access could be as easy as the original streetcar to subway platforms at Bloor/Yonge pre-19566).

I'm not saying that it would all fit easily at Islington, and I'm not saying that Islington has to have a station - although the location has its merits - but I would say it's worth considering.

- Paul

It wouldn't be the first time Metrolinx designed a GO station to be accessed directly from a pair of on-street bus stops.

Finch-Kennedy GO Station

Milliken GO Station

My plan is a whole lot simpler - platforms outside tracks 1 and 4, or one platform between 3 and 4, depending on how ML plans on using the trackage. Big Honking staircase under canopy from Islington sidewalk to the platform. Mobility access by an elevator shaft. Bus pull in on each side of Islington - not a loop, just the Islington Bus stopping there and moving on (plus whatever other routes are planned down that street).

The reason that @Islington Express Bus 's design is necessary is that there isn't enough room under the centre and south spans to fit four tracks plus two platforms. We would need the north track to go through the north span, which means that the road that currently occupies it needs to be realigned elsewhere.

The Lowes site was once studied by ML as their EMU maintenance and layover yard. Have they discarded that idea? I suspect that was back when they expected to electrify UPE but not necessarily the whole system.

The EMU yard is still shown on the OnCorridor PIC#3 materials dated November 2020, which is long after they'd decided to electrify the Kitchener line (not just UPX):

 

[Bojaxs]

At Etobicoke North, the roadway is depressed from the sidewalk, making a bus stop there impossible. Meanwhile at Islington, you could put a stop on the bridge and have walkways down to the platform level. You could even relocate that service road.

Also I don't think you need a parking garage.

Check it out:

View attachment 533591
Grey: Paved surface
Black: Station building
Yellow: Platform
Red: Bus stop
White: Pedestrian path

Definitely do need a parking garage. GO transit needs to make itself appeal to 401 driving, suburbanites who are commuting to downtown. There's a lot of stations where it makes sense to focus on more TOD. But an Islington station should focus more on being a park & ride station due to its proximity to the 401. Include a sizeable bus loop as well with enclosed shelters for transit riders.

Plus TOD wouldn't make much sense in hypothetical North Islington station as no one desires to live in a condo/ apartment right next to the 401 surrounded by warehouses.

Truth is there will always be people who resist living in walkable/ transit oreinted neighbourhoods and desire to live in car oreinted, suburbs. Making it easy for them to park their cars and take the train to work instead of driving into the downtown core is still a partial win which is better than no win at all.

 

[reaperexpress]

Definitely do need a parking garage. GO transit needs to make itself appeal to 401 driving, suburbanites who are commuting to downtown. There's a lot of stations where it makes sense to focus on more TOD. But an Islington station should focus more on being a park & ride station due to its proximity to the 401. Include a sizeable bus loop as well with enclosed shelters for transit riders.

Plus TOD wouldn't make much sense in hypothetical North Islington station as no one desires to live in a condo/ apartment right next to the 401 surrounded by warehouses.

Truth is there will always be people who resist living in walkable/ transit oreinted neighbourhoods and desire to live in car oreinted, suburbs. Making is easy for them to park their cars and take the train to work instead of driving into the downtown core is still a partial win which is better than no win at all.

There is a very large parking lot planned at the new Woodbine Racetrack station.

 

[Bojaxs]

There is a very large parking lot planned at the new Woodbine Racetrack station.

Woodbine Racetrack isn't located right off the 401 like the Islington North station would be.

 

[toraerach]

Plus TOD wouldn't make much sense in hypothetical North Islington station as no one desires to live in a condo/ apartment right next to the 401 surrounded by warehouses.

The houses on Adriatic are set to be replaced by a development at some point in the nearish future, so density in this area wouldn't be completely unprecedented. We could hypothetically even squeeze some space for parking out of that development for a North Islington GO.

 

[SkylineHorizons]

Metrolinx removed the flyover from their project plan.

They deferred it to ONCorr to consider the utility of; but have a standing plan to go ahead w/o it, at some future point.

Yeah, apparently at last word they feel like revising service patterns will be sufficient to prevent it from being a choke point i.e Running Stouffville trips on the northern side of the Kingston corridor between the junction and Union.

 

[SkylineHorizons]

.By the way, are the part time GO "stations" monitored? If I slipped and fell at the far west end of the Milton GO platform (far past where the buses load, a fairly desolate spot away from prying eyes) on a Friday night, and the train crew had already walked past, and I couldn't get up, what are the chances someone would discover me before Monday morning? Looking around the platform at Long Branch, I could not find anything that resembles a security camera, and that station is much busier than Milton.

Never thought I'd hear the day when someone wanted more cameras - I mean have you seen Union Station lately? Place has more surveillance than Fort Knox.

Anyhow, every station has cameras Long Branch included, take a look when exiting the stairwell they're mounted to its walls. But the coverage for some of the older stations/platforms is likely limited. As the stations get refurbished the cameras are improved to those globe ones that offer a full 360 view along with insane zoom capabilities.

At Etobicoke North, the roadway is depressed from the sidewalk, making a bus stop there impossible. Meanwhile at Islington, you could put a stop on the bridge and have walkways down to the platform level. You could even relocate that service road.

And where exactly are people going to stand waiting for those buses? On the bridge sidewalks?? Pretty sure there's a mandated minimum amount of space required for bus stops and that would fall well short of what's needed for a basic stop, nevermind being able to service the huge deluge of people coming off of a train.

Check it out:

View attachment 533591
Grey: Paved surface
Black: Station building
Yellow: Platform
Red: Bus stop
White: Pedestrian path

Your ramp placements are way too tight. MTO is not going to agree to that eastbound off-ramp redesign since it's much too short and liable to back traffic up on the main section of the highway.