Allandale25
Senior Member
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
crs1026
Superstar
Looking forward to images of tumbleweeds blowing down the yet to be used new platforms at.Agincourt and Milliken.
- Paaul
- Paaul
ProjectEnd
Superstar
I'm getting really sick of these slick-yet-empty videos from Metrolinx. We did "lots of work"...Uhh, great: what was the total scope, and how much did you accomplish in that given time period? It's a construction project so you are tracking that stuff, why can't you share it in any more detail than an effing TikTok. It's absurd and embarrassing when you get that, yet there are trees growing out of untamped / unbalasted track at a new / "soon to be open" station.
Arvalan
New Member
They were doing crossing revisions at Denison, Kennedy Rd, McNicoll Ave, Finch Ave, and Huntingwood. Trains were going back and forth during the closure.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yeah it's pretty difficult to swallow these self-congratulatory posts about completing infrastructure while the infrastructure in question is still completely unusable.
Kennedy has a second platform but it is unreachable because they haven't built a crossover south of the station.
Milliken has a second platform but it is unreachable because they haven't built the second track at the Highland Creek bridge.
Agincourt has a second platform but it is unreachable for the same reason.
Unionville has a third platform and it can theoretically be used, but it doesn't currently accomplish anything given that the aforementioned bridge restricts the number of trains that could reach Unionville.
Mount Dennis has a 4th platform but it is unreachable because there is no crossover south of the station.
Weston has a 4th platform and it can theoretically be used but it doesn't seem to line up correctly with the other passing locations to form a useful passing track.
There are two completed tunnels under Hwy 401 to add a fourth track and eliminate the current speed restriction but tracks cannot be installed in them until Etobicoke North station is demolished, and that's not planned to happen until 2030 when Woodbine Racetrack station opens. We will be paying for maintenance of these tunnels for a decade before a single train passes through.
https://woodbinecommunityplan.com/#timeline
Guelph has a 2nd platform and it can theoretically be reached but it would involve driving through the station on the other track and backing in, since construction hasn't even started on the western half of the second track that will connect it to the mainline.
Breslau has a completed second track but until the Acton or Guelph tracks are completed it doesn't enable any increase in service. In the meantime the nonsensical switch configuration in Breslau means that every train needs to slow from 110 km/h to 70 km/h to switch tracks in Breslau regardless of whether it's meeting a train in the other direction (and none of them are). And even with the planned track reconfiguration in a later contract, the trains that need to slow to switch tracks will be the ones that are NOT stopping at the station, rather than the ones who need to slow down anyway to stop.
And even once the Guelph and Acton passing tracks are completed, there will be very limited potential for all-day service through to Toronto because the second platform at Georgetown hasn't been tendered yet.
And even once the second platform at Georgetown is complete - finally making hourly service to Kitchener physically possible - CN will likely limit the number of slots given to GO until the Credit River grade separation is complete.
Rutherford has a second platform but it is unreachable because the work at Maple isn't done yet. And even once Maple's work is done I'm guessing it will be unreachable for a long time before they issue a contract to connect the second track at those stations to each other and to the existing double track on both ends.
Some of these are due to unforeseen construction delays (Highland Creek bridge), but some of them seem like bizarre infrastructure planning. Why did they choose to build those tunnels under the 401 a decade before they could be used, rather than the countless other projects on their list that could have actually provided usable infrastructure immediately? And why did nobody create a contract for an interim track arrangement that would allow the second platform at Kennedy to be used during the many many years between its completion and the completion of double track through the new grade separation under Danforth Road? Why was there such a delay in issuing the contract for the western half of the second track in Guelph? If it were complete we could have hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph by now.
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Dan416
Senior Member
I'd rather they build some of these things early than wait till later when it becomes more expensive to build them.
People are constantly complaining about something like the Eglinton subway having been canceled and filled in, and then we went back and built an LRT years later for way more money (and it's still not done). So yes there is some maintenance for the tunnels and platforms, but at least we won't have to wait for them to be built at that later time.
Overall yes, they could be lining things up a bit better but we don't know the exact constraints they're dealing with. I find it hard to believe that they're dragging things out on purpose. Incompetence, sure.
People are constantly complaining about something like the Eglinton subway having been canceled and filled in, and then we went back and built an LRT years later for way more money (and it's still not done). So yes there is some maintenance for the tunnels and platforms, but at least we won't have to wait for them to be built at that later time.
Overall yes, they could be lining things up a bit better but we don't know the exact constraints they're dealing with. I find it hard to believe that they're dragging things out on purpose. Incompetence, sure.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yes of course when there is a particular opportunity to build things cheaper we should do that, but that's not the case in most of these examples. The main reason we'd be able to build cheaper is when other work is happening anyway. For example it is very good that they built catenary pole foundations as part of the Whitby yard, UPX guideway and Davenport Diamond flyover because it's way cheaper than going back and doing it later in a decade when the poles are actually installed.
But here we are talking about standalone projects. One of the main limiting factors for GO Expansion is the availability of rail construction crews, so the construction of one project can limit the construction of other projects. Building a standalone piece of infrastructure that has no imminent utility is less useful than building the same amount of infrastructure somewhere else that will enable other infrastructure to become used.
And besides, in most of these cases I'm not suggesting that construction should have been deferred, I'm complaining that certain pieces of small trackwork were not contracted, and as a result large amounts of major infrastructure is unreachable. For example the contract for the west half of the Guelph passing track was issued so late that it will prevent the rest of the new second tracks west of Georgetown from being used for several years after their construction.
I never suggested that they are dragging things out in purpose. I am suggesting that upper management appears to be complacent about delays in issuing contracts for key trackwork projects. Delays starting those small projects undermine the utility of other massive infrastructure projects, and we have never seen this acknowledged by Mx. It should not have taken 10 years to decide on the track configuration west of Guelph station for example. It's a simple junction that is not affected by decisions elsewhere on the network.
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crs1026
Superstar
A large part of the frustration is the celebratory PR narrative which conflicts with the refusal to release an overall schedule. If ML put out a truthful schedule that said “we are doing the XYZ platform in 2023 but the tie in won’t be until 2025 because project component ABC won’t be ready until then” I could buy it as an intelligent staged program that needs multiple years for cash flow and resource timing reasons. But when ABC then falls off the plan and XYZ sits unused, and ML pretends all is well….
The Kitchener service is a prime example. The signals infrastructure was installed in 2014, but the signals for the 4th track at Weston have never been commissioned…. And the fourth platform remains consequently unusable. An 8-track signal gantry that was built near Queen St in 2014 was torn down recently without ever having had the signals turned on. The 409 tunnels are not being used because other work has fallen off the schedule, and not because the plan called for them to happen first.
ML’s refusal to explain is totally unacceptable.
- Paul
The Kitchener service is a prime example. The signals infrastructure was installed in 2014, but the signals for the 4th track at Weston have never been commissioned…. And the fourth platform remains consequently unusable. An 8-track signal gantry that was built near Queen St in 2014 was torn down recently without ever having had the signals turned on. The 409 tunnels are not being used because other work has fallen off the schedule, and not because the plan called for them to happen first.
ML’s refusal to explain is totally unacceptable.
- Paul
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Allandale25
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
I believe so. No doubt it's a precursor to work on the Liberty station, and its removal would likely be necessary in any event. But I would have felt better if we'd gotten a decade's use out of it before that happened.
- Paul
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Re: ML intransigence and general incompetence: BOY, ISN'T THAT FUNNY?!?!
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/pr...cle_df708d0c-5016-11ef-be48-5308b787df04.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/pr...cle_df708d0c-5016-11ef-be48-5308b787df04.html
ARG1
Senior Member
Considering the fact that its summer 2024 and it has yet to open, I feel like he did the right thing here
Allandale25
Senior Member
I wonder if it could be reinstalled and relocated nearby? I would have assumed they would have needed some signalling here, or maybe they won't because of whatever OnCorr has in mind? I guess it's hard to say at this moment.
drum118
Superstar
July 29
More up on my site
The tunnel section is ready to have the roof form for it. Main work is building the framework for the stair, the elevator and the walls for that area. Foundation base has been placed between the columns for the sound barrier wall to the south.
More up on my site
The tunnel section is ready to have the roof form for it. Main work is building the framework for the stair, the elevator and the walls for that area. Foundation base has been placed between the columns for the sound barrier wall to the south.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Someone on the Discord server for More Transit for Southern Ontario (in the general thread) posted this:
