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Bureaucromancer

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@smallspy I assume part of the issue here is that CN infra is cleared to plate K (for autoracks) and inserting plate H electrifIcation downgrades the route? Aside from clearance, do the freight roads have other objections, like “servicing and fault repair of the electrical gear will cause increases in track downtime”?
They’ve never been very clear about it publicly, but all indications are that ignoring FRA specs for properly double stack compatible electrification doesn’t appease them.
 

crs1026

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@smallspy I assume part of the issue here is that CN infra is cleared to plate K (for autoracks) and inserting plate H electrifIcation downgrades the route? Aside from clearance, do the freight roads have other objections, like “servicing and fault repair of the electrical gear will cause increases in track downtime”?

It’s not just the need for maintenance windows.

Engineering and mods to physical plant would have to be drafted and executed. A whole new set of standards to learn and apply.

The procedural changes to everything that happens under wires would have to be drafted, verified, run past Transport Canada, reverified, and then rolled out to a very large workforce of not only railway workers but contractors, first responders, etc etc. Dispatching software would have to be revised, integration between power supply controllers and RTC desks worked out. Potentially new CROR rules, new types or procedural mods for permitry and track authorities…. lots of unlearning and new learning.

Lots of precedents exist elsewhere, but why accept the bother for any of it?

- Paul
 

smallspy

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@smallspy I assume part of the issue here is that CN infra is cleared to plate K (for autoracks) and inserting plate H electrifIcation downgrades the route? Aside from clearance, do the freight roads have other objections, like “servicing and fault repair of the electrical gear will cause increases in track downtime”?
Clearance with the overhead is not a concern - with the exception of very, very specific locations as set out in the EA. And even those are being taken care of one-by-one. Ultimately, with the exception of the Union Station trainshed, the current clearances around the whole of the system will remain the same after electrification.

The major concern, as it seems to exist from CN and CP, is going to be access to their tracks. Electrification will limit it because of the reasons that you've listed, and it will greatly complicate things like track replacement, cleanup from derailments, etc. The onus should be on Metrolinx to show that those tasks can be handled in a reasonable manner, but I have every doubt that they just haven't done that yet.

Dan
 

jamincan

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Not so sure about that, significant work is going into the second platform in Guelph and double track through Breslau. I suspect they wouldn't do that unless hourly was in the cards, although then again without shovels in the ground for the Silver flyover, who knows?

Metrolinx's business plan for 2WAD service to Kitchener doesn't require a flyover at Silver Junction, it is just beneficial to allow better schedule resiliency. Apparently Metrolinx is still investigating whether they can include the flyover under the existing funded improvements, but hasn't yet made any conclusions. I've been told that they should be reporting on it sometime this fall. In the meantime, they have already proceeded with expropriations related to it.
 

Coolstar

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Interesting statement from Phil Verster.


1669425391052.png
 

crs1026

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So is stage 1 going to be the lakeshore lines?

What makes you think that ? The question was asked in the context of Brampton, ie the Kitchener line..

FWIW, the Dec 1 ML Board Agenda is up - it has next to nothing to say about any of this.

- Paul
 

SaugeenJunction

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So is stage 1 going to be the lakeshore lines?
We know that GO Expansion service increases won’t happen overnight, it will be a ramp up to the ultimate goal. These 3 year intervals (configuration states) probably represent various service level ramp-ups, and various states of electrification coming online. I would assume that electrification would occur first on the lines that require the least amount of additional infrastructure works.
 

sunnyside

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We know that GO Expansion service increases won’t happen overnight, it will be a ramp up to the ultimate goal. These 3 year intervals (configuration states) probably represent various service level ramp-ups, and various states of electrification coming online. I would assume that electrification would occur first on the lines that require the least amount of additional infrastructure works.
So, Lakeshore and perhaps Kitchener?
 

reaperexpress

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So, Lakeshore and perhaps Kitchener?
Kitchener, Stouffville and Barrie might actually be the easiest to build since most of their current tracks and stations were built recently and were designed for electrification. Most of the Lakeshore infrastructure predates Metrolinx's efforts to future-proof new construction for electrification. I'm not sure of the actual consequences of this difference, but it's possible the Lakeshore will require additional work for things like bridge retrofits and/or electrical grounding which are already complete on the other lines.
 

innsertnamehere

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We know that GO Expansion service increases won’t happen overnight, it will be a ramp up to the ultimate goal. These 3 year intervals (configuration states) probably represent various service level ramp-ups, and various states of electrification coming online. I would assume that electrification would occur first on the lines that require the least amount of additional infrastructure works.
I doubt the 2026 state has any electrification at all, to be honest. Likely just higher track work completions so more diesel service.
 

sunnyside

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Kitchener, Stouffville and Barrie might actually be the easiest to build since most of their current tracks and stations were built recently and were designed for electrification. Most of the Lakeshore infrastructure predates Metrolinx's efforts to future-proof new construction for electrification. I'm not sure of the actual consequences of this difference, but it's possible the Lakeshore will require additional work for things like bridge retrofits and/or electrical grounding which are already complete on the other lines.
I didn’t consider that. Still, how much work actually needs to be done to LSE/W to see these improvements? It has received the most attention overall, even if much of the work is from before electrification planning. Given the popularity and overall demand of the Lakeshore, I can see why they would want it done first despite said challenges.
I doubt the 2026 state has any electrification at all, to be honest. Likely just higher track work completions so more diesel service.
Bringing electrification to one line allows the old diesel trains to provide a higher level of service on the other lines. This could be a major factor in completing Lakeshore first, as other posters have mentioned- you would get the most trains able to be moved to other lines while they get electrified. Of course, you could do the inverse with the other lines being more electrification-ready.
 

generalcanada

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i mean, the contract was signed almost a year ago now, work will be ramping up quite quickly in the next year. Technically its been "under construction" since then
 

Allandale25

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^ Indeed. I think this is the first picture I've seen posted of the actual conduits for the electrification aspect instead of for something else like signaling or communications. @smallspy any thoughts?
 

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