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Allandale25 said:
^ Indeed. I think this is the first picture I've seen posted of the actual conduits for the electrification aspect instead of for something else like signaling or communications. @smallspy any thoughts?
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Yeah. Those don't look like conduit for any sort of power supply that would handle powering a train at all. Signalling and other sundry systems, sure.

Dan
 
Posted June 20, 2023

www.metrolinx.com

Progress being made to provide faster, more frequent GO service

ONxpress and Metrolinx celebrate one year in Development Phase.
www.metrolinx.com

Also tweeted with link to the above today:

Screenshot_2023-06-21_153704.jpg
 
hw621 said:
They need two years to do this?
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Luckily unlike a new project, work is already on going to support GO Expansion/RER.

Double tracking, grade separations, station platform doubling, fare integration, new stations, etc. Its all happening right now and in support of this work.

As much as I'd like to see electric EMU's gliding down the tracks, we will see a lot of improvements with the existing fleet very soon.
 
robmausser said:
Luckily unlike a new project, work is already on going to support GO Expansion/RER.

Double tracking, grade separations, station platform doubling, fare integration, new stations, etc. Its all happening right now and in support of this work.

As much as I'd like to see electric EMU's gliding down the tracks, we will see a lot of improvements with the existing fleet very soon.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling this is going to be a very gradual thing, just like all of GO Expansion up until this point. First, it’ll be the SmartTrack stations, then it’ll be more and more track work wrapping up, maybe any remaining grade seperations, signalling, Union stuff, etc. Next thing you know, service eclipses 2019 peaks- but it just keeps increasing. Then, oh- they’re putting up wires on LSW… first they aren’t ready for a while. Then they are- only to Oakville or something. Or maybe it’s UPX, so people notice the change even less.

And this whole time, like clockwork, the municipalities that stand to benefit the most are actually orienting service around the lines, creating massive terminal facilities just to accommodate it all. And that’s ignoring every rapid transit line being built; Eglinton alone is more oriented around GO connections than any TTC line before it. Why wouldn’t that also alter peoples’ [Toronto’s] perspective, and therefore, use of GO, too? One might say that right now, with all this off-peak ridership growth, GO is already getting there- people are actually using it like Rapid Transit, not just for commuting downtown. It’s like a whole new kind of ridership.

One day, and it will be a very inconspicuous day- the number of people who casually talk about the GO Lines as if it were a subway in their day to day will overtake those who see it as a commuting service, because the service and ridership will be at that point. And it will probably do that without electrification actually complete (at the very least, not all of it).
 
Sunnyside said:
I have a feeling this is going to be a very gradual thing, just like all of GO Expansion up until this point. First, it’ll be the SmartTrack stations, then it’ll be more and more track work wrapping up, maybe any remaining grade seperations, signalling, Union stuff, etc. Next thing you know, service eclipses 2019 peaks- but it just keeps increasing. Then, oh- they’re putting up wires on LSW… first they aren’t ready for a while. Then they are- only to Oakville or something. Or maybe it’s UPX, so people notice the change even less.

And this whole time, like clockwork, the municipalities that stand to benefit the most are actually orienting service around the lines, creating massive terminal facilities just to accommodate it all. And that’s ignoring every rapid transit line being built; Eglinton alone is more oriented around GO connections than any TTC line before it. Why wouldn’t that also alter peoples’ [Toronto’s] perspective, and therefore, use of GO, too? One might say that right now, with all this off-peak ridership growth, GO is already getting there- people are actually using it like Rapid Transit, not just for commuting downtown. It’s like a whole new kind of ridership.

One day, and it will be a very inconspicuous day- the number of people who casually talk about the GO Lines as if it were a subway in their day to day will overtake those who see it as a commuting service, because the service and ridership will be at that point. And it will probably do that without electrification actually complete (at the very least, not all of it).
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Yes but i'd add the other Metrolinx stations that aren't Smarttrack, like Spadina/Front, Caledonia and Mount Dennis, Woodbine, Park Lawn. We are getting a bunch of stations in Toronto that aren't even related to that project. 10 in total counting all of them if my math is correct. And also fare integration will gradually go from "if you took GO then TTC is 50% off, to fare regions. "If you stay in Zone 1, GO and TTC are the same price"
 
robmausser said:
Yes but i'd add the other Metrolinx stations that aren't Smarttrack, like Spadina/Front, Caledonia and Mount Dennis, Woodbine, Park Lawn. We are getting a bunch of stations in Toronto that aren't even related to that project. 10 in total counting all of them if my math is correct. And also fare integration will gradually go from "if you took GO then TTC is 50% off, to fare regions. "If you stay in Zone 1, GO and TTC are the same price"
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I believe fare integration will almost immediately shift ridership onto GO forever. At this point, I fail to see it even being cancelled because so many people will use it. It just needs a bit of time for people to realize what they’re getting. If a GO station is just as, if not more accessible than a TTC station, fundamentally people will choose to use it. Your completely right about those added stations for this reason.
 
I dont normally disagree with Reese here but in this case I think hes downplaying the costs massively.

We were never looking at full fleet replacement. That cost was going to be massive. 960 train cars do not come cheap. especially when youre 20$ billion deep in an expansion plan
Could they have done that? well go back to 2016 and rewrite the business case. Im skeptical it would choose it anyway
We are never getting rid of our diesel trains as we have discussed in this thread in the past.

Whatever we were going to do was basically peak service only with EMU's. The rest being run by smaller 6 car electric locomotives

Which would be like only a couple EMU's needed.

Now hes right in the points are big pluses. being able to plop down stations wherever like cherry to increase reachability, but we have a big problem in maintaining, not 1, not 2, but 3 separate train fleets (diesels, and their cabs, electric locos as well)

DB basically came in and said "naw you dont need all that, just use your existing fleet, do upgrades on the cheap, use this service plan". And boom they got a frequency better than that 2016 plan

I will go back to one of Reeses old videos where he said "Frequency is king". If you have a choice between frequency and peak service speed of your commute, choose frequency
 
goodcitywhenfinished said:
Thoughts? Will going with Elocos instead of EMU's really be that detrimental to service?
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I personally didn’t like the video, a lot of grossly expensive asks considering the capital we’re already spending to electrify and improve the network.

It’s also very tangential in discussing opportunities unlocked by getting rid of bi-level carriages – granted the video doesn’t have EMU in the title but has a focal point around EMUs and doesn’t discuss it in much depth. The main EMU argument is just “here’s a list of places that use EMUs.”

In considering a transition to EMUs, we’d not only be making a huge initial investment but also committing to a much higher operational and maintenance cost, especially for the length of trains we run. A study on the Amtrak Vermonter yielded the following key result regarding MU vs locomotive performance:
As ridership continues to increase on both the Vermonter and the Ethan Allen Express, the idea of running a total-DMU trainset is less desirable. This is because it is generally more economical to purchase, maintain, and operate a locomotive-passenger car trainset once the ridership has gotten to the point of requiring 4 passenger cars.
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(Document here: a further read is interesting )

The more I dive into it the more it seems like the reason we are keeping the bi-level cars is the cost of getting rid of them and the fact that we have so many.
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… Truly incredible breakthrough, Reece.
 
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