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I'm thinking that they are using the kiss graphics because it's the closest in resemblance to the Bi levels which is basically the symbol if go transit. That way people can draw commonalities between them. Pr at its best
I won't be surprised if they don't know what a kiss is
 
cplchanb said:
I'm thinking that they are using the kiss graphics because it's the closest in resemblance to the Bi levels which is basically the symbol if go transit. That way people can draw commonalities between them. Pr at its best
I won't be surprised if they don't know what a kiss is
Click to expand...
Ummmm.....hello. Stadler KISS is apparently one of the RER candidates:

(Not all submitted candidates listed.)

image.png


Ironically, some errors in this data. 1850 seats is per train and not per car.
 

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No one should assume anything from the clipart. It's a question of what looks pretty to the graphic artist, from what may have been most readily at hand, or what was most easily adaptable. Maybe that was the only clipart available in the file format that the graphic artist's software prefers. All we can infer is, double deck isn't off the table, or the client might have rejected the artwork. Maybe.

The Kitchener GO EA Powerpoints featured a model of diesel locomotive that was produced in small numbers in the early 1950's. Locomotive buffs scratched their heads, but no one else noticed.

- Paul
 
mdrejhon said:
Ummmm.....hello. Stadler KISS is apparently one of the RER candidates:

(Not all submitted candidates listed.)

View attachment 80875

Ironically, some errors in this data. 1850 seats is per train and not per car.
Click to expand...


We already know whats going to go on here. Bombardier is going to seriously underbid on the Twindexx, and the government is going to cite keeping things Canadian yadda yadda, and then there are going to be huge delays, the government will bail Bombardier out, and then the whole project will be 5 years behind.
 
thing is, does Bbr have any double deck EMU that is equivalent to the kiss? If metrolinx is looking to specify double deck emu, or even single deck emu, bbr is going to lose out because they dont have
anything available for NA unless they get an exception like the kiss just did
 
cplchanb said:
thing is, does Bbr have any double deck EMU that is equivalent to the kiss? If metrolinx is looking to specify double deck emu, or even single deck emu, bbr is going to lose out because they dont have
anything available for NA unless they get an exception like the kiss just did
Click to expand...

But why male models? ...are you...are you serious?

Its literally in the graph he shared, and I literally JUST said the name of it.

The Bombardier Twindexx. It will need an FRA exception too but its very similar to the KISS.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp...l&f-country=all&f-segment=all&f-name=TWINDEXX


SBB_RABe_502_203_Ossingen.jpg
 
I also notice that the EMUs have shorter coaches than the Bombardier BiLevels.
Even the diagrams show that the 12-coach EMU is shorter than the 12-coach BiLevel (even when excluding the locomotive).

I suspect that EMUs will play the role of high frequency allstop service (faster acceleration) while the old BiLevels (diesel / dualmode / electric loco driven) will still often be used to clear Union during peak period.

The business case will be the lower operating costs as well as the increased ridership that higher-frequency service provides, along with 416 infill stations (ala SmartTrack).
 
mdrejhon said:
I also notice that the EMUs have shorter coaches than the Bombardier BiLevels.
Even the diagrams show that the 12-coach EMU is shorter than the 12-coach BiLevel (even when excluding the locomotive).

I suspect that EMUs will play the role of high frequency allstop service (faster acceleration) while the old BiLevels (diesel / dualmode / electric loco driven) will still often be used to clear Union during peak period.

The business case will be the lower operating costs as well as the increased ridership that higher-frequency service provides, along with 416 infill stations (ala SmartTrack).
Click to expand...

once again dont take an artistic drawing as fact. A simple search on Wiki will show that all the listed EMUs have are relatively the same length as a bilevel give or take a couple feet. Until actual specs and tender documents are released, it would be best
to leave speculation and associated artistic diagrams from ML separate from known and confirmed facts.
 
That chart is pretty interesting, in the sense that it quantifies just how much of an economic penalty we pay by requiring the heavier TC/FRA compliant rolling stock. A 6-car Bombardier Battlestar-class bilevel train has many more seats, costs roughly the same, so is much cheaper to acquire on a per-seat basis. But - it is more expensive to operate and can't match the performance of the lighter and more compact alternatives, even spreading cost across all those additional seats.

I havent found a diagram, but photos certainly suggest that both KISS and Twindexx have a smaller cross section profile - making them lighter, but perhaps less spacious and less rider friendly upstairs.

If we assume we are moving to fast + frequent, we may not need the extra seating capacity.....but I wonder how 4-car train of traditional GO dreadnoughts might compare.....same seating, same passenger capacity.

- Paul
 
For coach size, doesn't matter which EMU. Plans do change, and yes, can change. However, most EMUs, including TWINDEXX and KISS and others, are shorter length than the BiLevels. So my earlier followup still stands -- it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I've already read hundreds of pages of GO documents (as part of research for my GO mega-articles (part1, part2) with part 3 under construction).

The RER Business Plan already specifies electric locomotives for Lakeshore East/West, but EMUs for Bramalea/Unionville/Aurora. This is the plan that Metrolinx has chosen, as Option 5 "10-Year Plan Optimized" (the $13.5 billion plan) instead of the $19 billion plan that specifies an all-EMU fleet.

Some very useful reading (almost a thousand pages) on Metrolinx's website is the follows:
  • Summary
  • Full Report
  • Appendices A to J (Corridor specs, schematics, model assumptions, results, fiscal performance, sensitivity analysis, economic benefits, line speed analysis, EA program, fare structure)
  • Appendix K: (station access analysis)
The point is that GO wants to go to a diversified fleet, including keeping existing bilevels (both diesel/elec loco driven) while adding EMUs, as specified by the Option #5 -- 10 Year Optimized.

Over time, these plans will be refined, possibly change. It's highly likely however, that EMUs will be introduced to at least some GO routes.
 
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what speeds are the new cab cars designed to absorb? It would seem like nothing much couldve mitigated any more damage in that italian case since it was head on and by the photos, both of the train's first 2 cars are pretty much vaporised
 
cplchanb said:
what speeds are the new cab cars designed to absorb? It would seem like nothing much couldve mitigated any more damage in that italian case since it was head on and by the photos, both of the train's first 2 cars are pretty much vaporised
Click to expand...

It's not speeds per se, but forces. The cab cars are designed to absorb 5.5MJ of energy while maintaining the volume of the passenger space. That space has its own rating of 800,000lbs of force on the ends of it before deformation occurs.

The problem is that energy greatly increases with increases in mass and speed (remember the equation from high school? E=mc^2? That's the starting point for all this, replacing the constant c (speed of light) with the velocity of the body you are measuring). If those two trains were travelling at a high rate of speed, than it doesn't matter how much crashworthiness was built into them, as the energy involved is going to exhaust whatever CEM systems are installed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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