[reaperexpress]

What's funny is if the 5:14 bus is a few minutes early arriving at Burlington GO (which is definitely possible with the amount of padding in travel time between Confederation GO and Burlington GO), you could catch the 6:39 train at Burlington GO, making the bus trip 11 minutes faster than the train trip.

True! And even if they don't catch the 6:39 express, they could certainly catch the 6:47 local which still gets to Union 5 minutes before the Niagara train.

Not having brampton and mount pleasant stations as part of the 15 minute service is the equivalent of not having all the stations from unionville to mount joy in markham have that service as well. I don’t understand why the biggest priority is only set on the stations that barely enter the respective cities

If you still don't understand why the current plan terminates 15-minute service in Bramalea, then I recommend looking at this rail ownership map (and this more up-to-date but less detailed one) and rereading the post you're quoting as well as Drum118's response to it.

So not in my lifetime

My condolences. Hourly service is already physically possible, and the trackwork currently underway in Bayview Junction is nominally to allow regular GO service to Hamilton. In the absence of the COVID situation I would have guessed that hourly service would start next year.

 

[smallspy]

Silly question, but why wouldn't go run a train to Niagara out of Lewis Yard (just past the new GO Stn under construction (Confederation).

That's a lot closer to Niagara, and they do use it store the Hamilton morning trains or at least some of them on weekdays.

Looks like GO has significant room for more tracks there as well.

Ultimately yes, they do - the size of the property that they own at Lewis Road is massive.

But the bigger issue has to do with equipment. During the summer, GO has 6 coaches that they outfit with bike racks for the Niagara Service. These cars are only used during the weekend runs, and during the week they sit in the yard gathering dust. There is simply no room at the Lewis Rd. facility for them to store the cars or do the switching into and out of the consists, and so all of that is done at Willowbrook.

Dan

 

[Haydenpoon]

So since ML can’t run all trains to niagara obviously, why not have hourly trains that run express service from union to burlington, and then take the 12B express bus which goes straight to niagara from there (which would also come every hour as well to be a train bus meet service, and it would make sense to allow it to service confederation and St Catherines to complete the corridor)

And also have the 12B go to the park and ride as well, so that vaughan, brampton, missisauga and oakville residents have an easier way to get to niagara via the 40 and 47 go buses

They do plan to run hourly trains to Confederation though. see link

 

[reaperexpress]

When they do eventually run hourly service to Confederation, I think they should reroute the 12 to serve Hamilton Centre and West Harbour rather than Burlington and Burlington Park & Ride. This would provide a regular bus service from Hamilton to Niagara Region, something that has been sorely lacking since Coach Canada canceled its service in 2014. GO's service would be more successful than the old Coach Canada route because it has dual purposes: not only serving the Hamilton-Niagara market, but also the GTA - Niagara market.

Changing the terminus of Route 12 would make no difference in travel time for trips to Toronto. From Stoney Creek it takes the same time to drive to West Harbour as to Burlington station, and an express train from West Harbour to Union takes the same time as a local train from Burlington.
I think that in order to be successful in the Hamilton-Niagara market, the bus needs to be faster than it is today. That's why I think they should skip Stoney Creek and Beamsville Park & Ride. I think most of the ridership from Stoney Creek is heading toward Toronto or Hamilton so they can take the train instead. Beamsville is a total waste of time - what little ridership it has could simply drive to Grimsby. In both cases, I suspect that removing the stops would result in a net increase in ridership thanks to the faster service.

Previous service, for comparison:

 

[anb]

True! And even if they don't catch the 6:39 express, they could certainly catch the 6:47 local which still gets to Union 5 minutes before the Niagara train.



If you still don't understand why the current plan terminates 15-minute service in Bramalea, then I recommend looking at this rail ownership map (and this more up-to-date but less detailed one) and rereading the post you're quoting as well as Drum118's response to it.

No i understand, i'm just saying they should've pushed a bigger priority project to both own the rail and service for 15 minutes. I get why its not happening, at least not right now

 

[anb]

They do plan to run hourly trains to Confederation though. see link

Then have the 12B go from Burlington park and ride to here and then full express to niagara, that seems like the biggest win situation for the entire corridor.

When they do eventually run hourly service to Confederation, I think they should reroute the 12 to serve Hamilton Centre and West Harbour rather than Burlington and Burlington Park & Ride. This would provide a regular bus service from Hamilton to Niagara Region, something that has been sorely lacking since Coach Canada canceled its service in 2014. GO's service would be more successful than the old Coach Canada route because it has dual purposes: not only serving the Hamilton-Niagara market, but also the GTA - Niagara market.

Changing the terminus of Route 12 would make no difference in travel time for trips to Toronto. From Stoney Creek it takes the same time to drive to West Harbour as to Burlington station, and an express train from West Harbour to Union takes the same time as a local train from Burlington.
I think that in order to be successful in the Hamilton-Niagara market, the bus needs to be faster than it is today. That's why I think they should skip Stoney Creek and Beamsville Park & Ride. I think most of the ridership from Stoney Creek is heading toward Toronto or Hamilton so they can take the train instead. Beamsville is a total waste of time - what little ridership it has could simply drive to Grimsby. In both cases, I suspect that removing the stops would result in a net increase in ridership thanks to the faster service.

View attachment 260930

Previous service, for comparison:
View attachment 260929

Same thing with this. Having the 12 rerouted to hamilton, and the 12B rerouted to the park and ride (doesn't even have to serve Burlington go because there would be no point besides potentially getting to toronto 15-30 mins earlier because of the RER), would be the two things i would propose. Just imagine a complete express service between richmond hill and niagara via the 40 and 12B, this is what we get.


Dundas/407 P&R->Confederation GO->St Catherines GO->Stanley/420 P&R->Niagara Falls Bus Terminal

That just works perfectly in my eyes

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289576409405493248

 

[kali]

How many bikes can one BiLevel fit?

 

[Richard White]

A few hundred no doubt but it would be a pain in the rear to sort out that mess after

 

[kali]

Looks like 20-30 comfortably from that photo?

EDIT: AMA says it's 18.

 

[gweed123]

Ultimately yes, they do - the size of the property that they own at Lewis Road is massive.

But the bigger issue has to do with equipment. During the summer, GO has 6 coaches that they outfit with bike racks for the Niagara Service. These cars are only used during the weekend runs, and during the week they sit in the yard gathering dust. There is simply no room at the Lewis Rd. facility for them to store the cars or do the switching into and out of the consists, and so all of that is done at Willowbrook.

Dan

Would it not be feasible to run that Niagara train as the last nightly (or 2nd last maybe) westbound Lakeshore West train? Deadhead that train to Union, have the incoming westbound LSE train go out of service at Union, and have that train pick up the run. After Aldershot, it could then deadhead to Lewis.

 

[gweed123]

When they do eventually run hourly service to Confederation, I think they should reroute the 12 to serve Hamilton Centre and West Harbour rather than Burlington and Burlington Park & Ride. This would provide a regular bus service from Hamilton to Niagara Region, something that has been sorely lacking since Coach Canada canceled its service in 2014. GO's service would be more successful than the old Coach Canada route because it has dual purposes: not only serving the Hamilton-Niagara market, but also the GTA - Niagara market.

Changing the terminus of Route 12 would make no difference in travel time for trips to Toronto. From Stoney Creek it takes the same time to drive to West Harbour as to Burlington station, and an express train from West Harbour to Union takes the same time as a local train from Burlington.
I think that in order to be successful in the Hamilton-Niagara market, the bus needs to be faster than it is today. That's why I think they should skip Stoney Creek and Beamsville Park & Ride. I think most of the ridership from Stoney Creek is heading toward Toronto or Hamilton so they can take the train instead. Beamsville is a total waste of time - what little ridership it has could simply drive to Grimsby. In both cases, I suspect that removing the stops would result in a net increase in ridership thanks to the faster service.

Interesting proposal. I would think that terminating the 12 at either Confederation GO or at Eastgate Square would be more efficient though. I would think that the majority of people from Niagara would be wanting to transfer to the train, so that connection should be made at Confederation. For those wanting to go to Downtown Hamilton, running the route a bit further down Centennial and then terminating at Eastgate would provide a good connection to the B-Line for those wanting to head downtown.

 

[anb]

^if this were to happen then, then why not add a stop at aldershot for the 40 and 47 to connect with, that would honestly compliment the whole region and anyone from anywhere in the gta can get to niagara at ease, and vice versa if niagara region riders wanted to get to pearson/square one/brampton more efficently

 

[smallspy]

Would it not be feasible to run that Niagara train as the last nightly (or 2nd last maybe) westbound Lakeshore West train? Deadhead that train to Union, have the incoming westbound LSE train go out of service at Union, and have that train pick up the run. After Aldershot, it could then deadhead to Lewis.

No. The bike trains are configured differently than normal ones, and don't have the capacity needed for the service.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

FWIW they ran L8 today, at least the Fallsbound train thru Bayview around 9 was L8. Interesting that ridership is that good.

- Paul