smallspy
Senior Member
Yes.
To put it slightly more eloquently, both are the problem. It takes a certain amount of time to train someone to be rules qualified, and then when they do Alstom is not paying (or offering) enough to keep them there.
Dan
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
To put it slightly more eloquently, both are the problem. It takes a certain amount of time to train someone to be rules qualified, and then when they do Alstom is not paying (or offering) enough to keep them there.
Dan
T3G
Senior Member
Quash service to Milton and Kitchener??? Are you proposing running shuttle bus replacements? With how many buses?
Garuda
Active Member
Weekend service on the Kitchener Line is long overdue. Send the trains to Bramelea and have the buses terminate there instead of Lakeshore stations.
crs1026
Superstar
^Having just spent a couple of hours grinding along the 401 from Waterloo Region, I would definitely not agree with cutting back service on the Kitchener line. The question is - why are the improvements not moving faster?
The current problem highlights what is foolish about putting one’s fate in the hands of a contractor. About all Metrolinx can do is have their lawyers write angry sounding letters, which the contractor’s lawyers will just rebut or deflect.
Is ML about to fire Alstom for breach of contract ? Ummm, no, that would backfire in a flash.
What can ML actually do to get Alstom to perform better? Other than offer them more money, not much.
But since the Minister and ML can offer an excuse (“ It’s the contractor’s fault”), there is no accountability required.
Does anyone see the problem ?
- Paul
The current problem highlights what is foolish about putting one’s fate in the hands of a contractor. About all Metrolinx can do is have their lawyers write angry sounding letters, which the contractor’s lawyers will just rebut or deflect.
Is ML about to fire Alstom for breach of contract ? Ummm, no, that would backfire in a flash.
What can ML actually do to get Alstom to perform better? Other than offer them more money, not much.
But since the Minister and ML can offer an excuse (“ It’s the contractor’s fault”), there is no accountability required.
Does anyone see the problem ?
- Paul
SashaLemon
Active Member
How do European countries do these works? I guess there it's more of a requirement whereas here we see regional rail services as a luxury item...
T3G
Senior Member
North America is not unique in being used by contractors - you should see the grief Arriva has been causing in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Or the utter shambles that has become of British railways since privatization in 1995...
I have always found the idea of privatizing transit services to be utterly baffling. True, government run organizations can have problems with staffing too, but the private sector really doesn't offer anything in terms of competence or efficiency (this is a myth perpetuated by those who have not worked for the private sector in living memory), and the addition of more people into the mix just makes it easier to pass the buck and avoid taking responsibility for anything.
I have always found the idea of privatizing transit services to be utterly baffling. True, government run organizations can have problems with staffing too, but the private sector really doesn't offer anything in terms of competence or efficiency (this is a myth perpetuated by those who have not worked for the private sector in living memory), and the addition of more people into the mix just makes it easier to pass the buck and avoid taking responsibility for anything.
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Bordercollie
Senior Member
Funny that those new tunnels under the highway were completed over a year ago yet the track won't be installed for another 2-4 years. They still need to work on Etobicoke North, which they have not even started.
SashaLemon
Active Member
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
London is supposed to be a VIA route. The Feds need to step up their game.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
I think Kitchener Service should be expanded to Mt Pleasant now actually.
The problem is London and some of the low usage bus routes.
The problem is London and some of the low usage bus routes.
drum118
Superstar
Until changes are made to rolling stock and type of service, we are stuck with one size fit all needs, not the other way around.
As I have stated over the years, you only send a small train to say London or NF that were part of a train that stop in KW or Hamilton. I had the experience in July/Aug of being on said type of trains while in Europe.
One train was 3 5 car EMU where one continue on to the final stop at X point. The other was an DMU train that left Copenhagen as 12 cars that you could walk through from one end to the other freely. Train split to 8 cars at Odense Denmark and became 2 and 6 cars train at Flensburg Germany with each going in 2 different direction.
Before the station where the splits are to take place, the crew fold out the cab end from the wall so there is a cab at each end of the trains. I watch this take place and was done in 5 minutes. These were DSB (Danske Statsbaner) 2025 + 2129 IC3 (or class MF) Diesel Multiple-unit (DMU) for my train.
On the return trip to Copenhagen, 3 trains become one train like it left Copenhagen.
Even on a 5 car RER EMU DD trains, we became 2 5 car train to Hamburg along the route and only took less than 5 minutes to do it. In Hamburg, it became 2 trains again going in opposite direction.
Unedited and non tag photos July 16
As I have stated over the years, you only send a small train to say London or NF that were part of a train that stop in KW or Hamilton. I had the experience in July/Aug of being on said type of trains while in Europe.
One train was 3 5 car EMU where one continue on to the final stop at X point. The other was an DMU train that left Copenhagen as 12 cars that you could walk through from one end to the other freely. Train split to 8 cars at Odense Denmark and became 2 and 6 cars train at Flensburg Germany with each going in 2 different direction.
Before the station where the splits are to take place, the crew fold out the cab end from the wall so there is a cab at each end of the trains. I watch this take place and was done in 5 minutes. These were DSB (Danske Statsbaner) 2025 + 2129 IC3 (or class MF) Diesel Multiple-unit (DMU) for my train.
On the return trip to Copenhagen, 3 trains become one train like it left Copenhagen.
Even on a 5 car RER EMU DD trains, we became 2 5 car train to Hamburg along the route and only took less than 5 minutes to do it. In Hamburg, it became 2 trains again going in opposite direction.
Unedited and non tag photos July 16
lenaitch
Senior Member
This reminds me of when the province privatized highway maintenance. In the beginning, highway conditions in many areas of the province went into the toilet and it took a lot of growing pains and, in some cases, more public money thrown at the problem to see improvements. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to learn that Alstom is working within the letters of their terms because bureaucrats are notorious for writing lousy contracts.
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crs1026
Superstar
That’s the thing….. the public and political attraction to contracted and P3 relationships is the premise that you can hold someone to a contract - and, if they don’t perform, they don’t get paid or suffer penalties. Or you can just “fire” them and find someone else. That is far too simplistic a belief and it fundamentally doesn’t happen.
I don’t know how much information ML has access to about Alstom’s pool of train crews. I suspect the contract simply says Alstom will provide people with credentials, subject to some sort of audit process to verify that the workers have the required credentials and training. So if ML became dissatisfied with Alstom and terminated the relationship, it would have to find all those people and transition their employment to themselves or another contractor. In the interim, they would have no access to those workers, and all service would be affected.
ML Negotiator: “Item 27. We need a clause that sets a standard and lays out penalties for a situation where the contractor can’t provide all the crews we require.”
Alsom Negotiator: “ No need. That will never happen. Look, this relationship won’t ever work if you keep being so negative about everything that might hypothetically happen….”
ML Negotiator: “Oh, OK. Sorry. Item 28…….”
- Paul
allengeorge
Senior Member
This entire discussion brings to mind a single phrase - “A pox on both your houses” - when it comes to Metrolinx and Alstom.
It’s clear there’s a service issue, and as an outsider I’d like to see it resolved. Perhaps that includes money, litigation and/or Metrolinx hiring and training crews itself. Whatever it is, it’s clear that Alstom doesn’t care about the current situation and Metrolinx, Phil Verster and Caroline Mulroney aren’t being aggressive enough to improve it. The downside is that the longer this persists the more people are going to develop new habits (taking the car) to their destination as opposed to taking GO - and that’s a long-term issue.
It’s clear there’s a service issue, and as an outsider I’d like to see it resolved. Perhaps that includes money, litigation and/or Metrolinx hiring and training crews itself. Whatever it is, it’s clear that Alstom doesn’t care about the current situation and Metrolinx, Phil Verster and Caroline Mulroney aren’t being aggressive enough to improve it. The downside is that the longer this persists the more people are going to develop new habits (taking the car) to their destination as opposed to taking GO - and that’s a long-term issue.
Krypto98
Active Member
As far as I know there isn't any difference with the road switchers "schedule" on weekends vs on weekdays, yeah different customers may be serviced at different days.
L533 runs on the Guelph Sub usually after 9pm
529 usually runs on the weston after 1 pm ish but there should be enough capacity on the weston for a hourly go train
549 runs to west toronto after 11pm usually
Hourly to Bramalea is certainly feasible. Between Peel and Brampton is a bit of a bottle neck with the 2 tracks...