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crs1026 said:
This is telling.

If the track is this rough, maybe it's time to switch to a bus service until a proper refurbishment of the line can be completed.

Fixing things on a fits-and-starts basis is disruptive, drives away ridership and wastes money.

- Paul

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innsertnamehere said:
the train has been about politics since day 1 - money or sense isn't the point.
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As someone who takes that particular train at least weekly, it gets decent service - about as many if not more riders than VIA West of Kitchener. For one trip a day, it's honestly fine. Preferable to VIA even.
 
crs1026 said:
This is telling.

If the track is this rough, maybe it's time to switch to a bus service until a proper refurbishment of the line can be completed.

Fixing things on a fits-and-starts basis is disruptive, drives away ridership and wastes money.

- Paul

View attachment 439242
Click to expand...
Get rid of it. Perfect time to build out a bus network in SW Ontario. So many opportunities to connect Sarnia, Windsor, and London to Toronto. And each other.
 
turbanplanner said:
didn't someone mention the track work is done?
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For this inspection, perhaps. The track inspection vehicle will return on a prescribed interval. If the next set of data finds more problems, and more cancellations and bustitutions happen, then we have a pattern.

I would not view this episode as "getting the line up to proper shape". It's still bandaid level response.

There is improvement work starting to happen. The question is just, is it prudent to run an unreliable service to low standards until work can be done to make improvements, or should ML wait and open a quality service of high reliability after improvements have been made.

The reputational damage that's being done should not be overlooked. A bus that works may grow more ridership than a train that doesn't.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
For this inspection, perhaps. The track inspection vehicle will return on a prescribed interval. If the next set of data finds more problems, and more cancellations and bustitutions happen, then we have a pattern.

I would not view this episode as "getting the line up to proper shape". It's still bandaid level response.

There is improvement work starting to happen. The question is just, is it prudent to run an unreliable service to low standards until work can be done to make improvements, or should ML wait and open a quality service of high reliability after improvements have been made.

The reputational damage that's being done should not be overlooked. A bus that works may grow more ridership than a train that doesn't.

- Paul
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Otoh I find at least with the TTC (ml is weird lately because of staff shortages) that bus service is super easy to cut, but they're more willing think long term with rail.
Even for GO there were 2 routes that serviced Caledon that were eliminated.
 
turbanplanner said:
Otoh I find at least with the TTC (ml is weird lately because of staff shortages) that bus service is super easy to cut, but they're more willing think long term with rail.
Even for GO there were 2 routes that serviced Caledon that were eliminated.
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Exactly - for any infrastructure construction based transit, TTC is way out front, planning how its routes will be adjusted years ahead of opening day for a subway or LRT.

One of the values of the bus is its flexibility. Yes, that may lead to cancellations - but in this case, if GO filled one busload a day, they could add a seccond bus on whatever schedule would gain the most riders.... and then adjust the timings to grow the ridership as they iterate.

The London GO service was announced without any real plan to grow the service, add feeder routes, or even have proper tracks to run on. It's the equivalent of converting the 501 to a subway overnight by just having TR trains run down the streetcar tracks. Much cheaper and faster than tunnelling, yes....but you can see the problem......

I'm not a fan of endless studies and redesigns, but you have to plan the work and then work the plan.

- Paul
 
lexaprofessional said:
Lived in a townhouse my whole life and loved the friendship I was able to have with my neighbours. To each their own (and what they can afford).
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The built form has absolutely nothing to do with good neighborly ties, community camaraderie, etc.

This one of the most persistent Canadian myths, along with the "kids need a backyard to be raised properly."

The number one factor, as always, is people giving a sh*t. Without that, everything falls apart.

Come on, how much community bonding is there in the typical post war suburban subdivision? Little to none and in fact people move to these areas to have  more distance from neighbors.

When I used to rent, my building saw an influx of newly arrived Filipino folks. They were very communal with each other. Didn't matter that they lived in a large apartment building.
 
Last edited:
Quick questions for GO historians regarding Kitchener service:

When did GO expand bus service to Kitchener?

From a 2001 map posted on Transit Toronto, there is no bus service at the time, and I believe weekday train service started in 2011, so bus service had to have launched sometime between this period.

Thanks!
 
Undead said:
The built form has absolutely nothing to do with good neighborly ties, community camaraderie, etc.

This one of the most persistent Canadian myths, along with the "kids need a backyard to be raised properly."

The number one factor, as always, is people giving a sh*t. Without that, everything falls apart.

Come on, how much community bonding is there in the typical post war suburban subdivision? Little to none and in fact people move to these areas to have  more distance from neighbors.

When I used to rent, my building saw an influx of newly arrived Filipino folks. They were very communal with each other. Didn't matter that they lived in a large apartment building.
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I'm certainly not a sociologist, but I think there are generational dynamics at work. Growing up in post war suburbia in the 50s and 60s, the neighbourhood was our playground. Most mom's were stay-at-home and there was more of a collective sense to looking after the kids. We played on the streets or in local parks and there were nearby stand-alone of small strip mall stores to haunt.

You are right that if people don't want a community, they won't get one. If they simply want a place to lay their head between jobs and maybe grow equity for the next move, then you will get a crappy neighbourhood. We are now in a subdivision of 2+acre lots a know all sorts of people (mostly revolving around walking dogs). Pre-Covid, we had community picnics at the end of a cul-de-sac and even lawn concerts, but it takes the right type of people to get that rolling.
 
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