[TOareaFan]

It is hard to be anything but pleased that GO has, finally, seen fit to add event trains to a line that does not have any off peak trains instead of just increasing frequency on the lines it has that already has trains.

Of course we will all have opinions on which line should have been first (I have my own and, not surprisingly it would have been G-Town...a line that has a bigger population to serve than any other) or why one line instead of all the lines....that said, it is good news indeed.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

TOAreafan you are aware its not GO but CP(like had been said many times before) blocking expanded service. Stop getting mad at GO and email CP

 

[TOareaFan]

TOAreafan you are aware its not GO but CP(like had been said many times before) blocking expanded service. Stop getting mad at GO and email CP

Firstly, who said that discussing anything makes me "mad" at anyone....am I not allowed to question decisions?

Secondly, this would be the first time anyone ever mentioned that the G-Town line is owned by CP....I always thought that, historically, the line was owned by CN but that large parts of it are now owned by GO itself...sorry if my misinformation, somehow, offends you.

Thirdly, as someone pointed out earlier, on Sundays there is not even that much freight traffic on the main CP line (which is the Milton GO line, I think) so blaming freight for not being able to fit in one or two return trips on a Sunday on that line is a bit of a crock. During the week, GO manages to fit in 5 or so return trips on the lines they share with freight trains....so it is hard to imagine that on the weekend, for these special events, they could not fit in 1 or 2 return trips on all of their lines.

Since, likely, the track capacity is there and since we know the rolling stock is there it is likely one of two things stopping them....as someone suggested they likely can't get enough crews to do it or they do not have the same level of commitment to those lines as they do Lakeshores (E & W)....since they manage to get more crews to add more trains to Lakeshore, I would suggest that doing that rather than adding trains to each of their lines shows that those two reasons have some overlap.

 

[nfitz]

TOAreafan you are aware its not GO but CP(like had been said many times before) blocking expanded service. Stop getting mad at GO and email CP

Perhaps you can elaborate on how CP is blocking increased service on the Georgetown line?

Surely the Georgetown issue is all the construction that's going on ... the same reason they eliminated the off-peak services that were there.

 

[TOareaFan]

Perhaps you can elaborate on how CP is blocking increased service on the Georgetown line?

Surely the Georgetown issue is all the construction that's going on ... the same reason they eliminated the off-peak services that were there.

But, again, if it is possible to fit 5 - 6 return trains a day through there Monday to Friday...surely it is also possible to fit 1 or 2 through on a Saturday or Sunday the 4 or 5 times a year when there are events to be serviced? No?

 

[nfitz]

But, again, if it is possible to fit 5 - 6 return trains a day through there Monday to Friday...surely it is also possible to fit 1 or 2 through on a Saturday or Sunday the 4 or 5 times a year when there are events to be serviced? No?

Always possible ... but how much will it delay the several construction projects ongoing ... and how many extra crews are available.

Be patient ... I'm sure there will be significantly improved off-peak service in the next 5 years or so.

 

[TOareaFan]

Always possible ... but how much will it delay the several construction projects ongoing ... and how many extra crews are available.

Be patient ... I'm sure there will be significantly improved off-peak service in the next 5 years or so.

I think it has a lot more to do with crews than any other reason. Two trains (one each way) on a Sunday 5 times a year is hardly gonna impact a 5 year construction program significantly. How much work, relative to week days, takes place on a Sunday anyway?

I am well aware of the long term work/gain that the line will receive....but the point in this mini-discussion was could they, and why wouldn't they, consider this line for some event trains? Other than crew shortages, I can see none....so it ads to the frustration, again, that the line(s) that already get off peak service get additional event service at the expense of lines (Milton, GT, etc) that have no service on those days/events.

It is less of an issue, for me, for the Santa Clause parade because people wanting to attend and wanting to use GO can use buses as the bus route is relatively unaffected by the event they are attending. It is a huge frustration, though, for events like Carabana and the Indy when the route the bus would take is greatly impacted by the event itself.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Firstly, who said that discussing anything makes me "mad" at anyone....am I not allowed to question decisions?

Secondly, this would be the first time anyone ever mentioned that the G-Town line is owned by CP....I always thought that, historically, the line was owned by CN but that large parts of it are now owned by GO itself...sorry if my misinformation, somehow, offends you.

Thirdly, as someone pointed out earlier, on Sundays there is not even that much freight traffic on the main CP line (which is the Milton GO line, I think) so blaming freight for not being able to fit in one or two return trips on a Sunday on that line is a bit of a crock. During the week, GO manages to fit in 5 or so return trips on the lines they share with freight trains....so it is hard to imagine that on the weekend, for these special events, they could not fit in 1 or 2 return trips on all of their lines.

Since, likely, the track capacity is there and since we know the rolling stock is there it is likely one of two things stopping them....as someone suggested they likely can't get enough crews to do it or they do not have the same level of commitment to those lines as they do Lakeshores (E & W)....since they manage to get more crews to add more trains to Lakeshore, I would suggest that doing that rather than adding trains to each of their lines shows that those two reasons have some overlap.

Perhaps you can elaborate on how CP is blocking increased service on the Georgetown line?

Surely the Georgetown issue is all the construction that's going on ... the same reason they eliminated the off-peak services that were there.

CP owns the Georgetown and Milton Lines. It's a private rail road and they will demand heavy compensaion for more use.

 

[ShonTron]

You are wrong on the ownership issue. CP owns 90% of the Milton Line (between West Toronto and Union Station, GO owns the track). GO also owns about 50% of the Georgetown Line (Union-Bramalea), which it purchased from CN, and CN owns the rest through Brampton and Georgetown. Milton is the only CP tracks that GO runs on, though this may change if GO introduces Bolton rail service.

Theoretically, GO could run a special train from Bramalea to Union entirely on their own tracks, but at that time of the morning, a westbound VIA train leaves Union to Guelph, Kitchener and London and occupies that now mostly single track, which is under massive construction.

You are correct that CP in particular has been unreasonably stubborn with regards to increased GO use of their Galt Sub (Milton Line).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You are wrong on the ownership issue. CP owns 90% of the Milton Line (between West Toronto and Union Station, GO owns the track). GO also owns about 50% of the Georgetown Line (Union-Bramalea), which it purchased from CN, and CN owns the rest through Brampton and Georgetown. Milton is the only CP tracks that GO runs on, though this may change if GO introduces Bolton rail service.

Theoretically, GO could run a special train from Bramalea to Union entirely on their own tracks, but at that time of the morning, a westbound VIA train leaves Union to Guelph, Kitchener and London and occupies that now mostly single track, which is under massive construction.

You are correct that CP in particular has been unreasonably stubborn with regards to increased GO use of their Galt Sub (Milton Line).

Ok. So I apologize to TOAreaFan. There is no excuse for Brampton and Georgetown having bad service.

 

[TOareaFan]

Ok. So I apologize to TOAreaFan. There is no excuse for Brampton and Georgetown having bad service.

No apology necessary, and, generally, ther is lots of excuses for the line having poor service levels relative to the populations it serves. These excuses are long standing and are, finally, being adressed with the investment and construction we see today. That said, I have hard time accepting/believing that there is no window on Sunday in which to run a train.....if one Via train makes that impossible on a Sunday how are they able to offer the service levels they do during the week?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Milton is the only CP tracks that GO runs on, though this may change if GO introduces Bolton rail service.

In the near future the Bowmanville extension of GO's Lakeshore East line will run across a portion of CP's Belleville subdivision as well. And in the far future perhaps proposed the Midtown, Locust Hill/Peterborough and Seaton lines as well.

 

[gweed123]

I think the construction on the Georgetown corridor is a decent excuse for now (and I stress for now) to limit off-peak service. The line is a mess, and adding more trains to it will only further complicate the construction process.

However, given the option, I would much rather have the "construction is limiting expansion" excuse as opposed to the "CP are being dicks" excuse. At least one of them has a clear timeframe for resolution.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

In the near future the Bowmanville extension of GO's Lakeshore East line will run across a portion of CP's Belleville subdivision as well. And in the far future perhaps proposed the Midtown, Locust Hill/Peterborough and Seaton lines as well.

I thought Metrolinx bough all the lines from Burlington to Courtice?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I thought Metrolinx bough all the lines from Burlington to Courtice?

Metrolinx only purchased a portion of the Kingston subdivision from the Union Station Rail Corridor (mile 332.4) to Durhan Jct. (mile 314), which is 1 mile west of the Pickering GO station. At Durham Jct. it connects to the GO built and owned GO subdivision(yes they named it after themselves ).

The GO sub then continues 11.7 miles eastward until it ends at the Oshawa GO. The plan is to build a diversion around mile 11 of the GO sub where it will continue northward, cross the 401 and connect to CP's Belleville sub just west of Stevenson Rd in Oshawa.

An additional track will be built to the south side of CP's mainline continuing for a few miles until it connects to the Belleville sub. CP will not be transferring ownership of any portion of their mainline to GO/Metrolinx.